NI Superstocks - Finals Night results thread (Read 49,574 times)

[MENTL1]

Jan 4, 2010 16:01:36 GMT 12 @carwrecker said:

With regards to the issue of red lights and the protest it brings up the fact once again that many competitors and officials do not know their rule book .
Faram moved under reds in the final heat ,He was not instructed to move by infield staff or SNZ officials, therefore he broke the rules.
Hemi chose to protest as is his rite to do so,he did it within the time frame allowed ( within 10 minutes of the race result being posted).
It is correct hemi moved under reds in an earlier heat however he was not relegated by the SNZ officials nor was he protested by another competitor, therefore it can not be bought up at a latter time when a protest is being considered for something that happened in another race.
Our sport is never going to go any where or will it ever become more professional as long as this kind of stuff happens .
I would think should Hemi chose to appeal this he would (should be successful)
The official concerned needs to get a kick in the butt and be sent back to official school.

And before any body starts ranting I have no particular interest in who won the deal or came second , it was agood nights racing marred by poor decision making on the part of the people sent to run the meeting

I agree it wasnt Hemi's fault about picking up as many places as he can on the reds as most people try it, Its the officals fault for not doing there job by sending drivers back to where they sould be. In races 1 & 2 we counted no less than 6 cars Hemi passed under reds, how is that fair to the other competitors?? the guys on the infeild must be blind when everyone in the stands can see it, why cant they???....

[BarryB]

As somebody who has watched many races from both the infield and the stands, I can tell you it's much easier to follow what's going on from the outside. From the middle tow trucks etc block much of your view, and which ever way you're looking 50% of the action is behind you.

In saying that however, if an official is charged with watching a paticular part of the race track, then that should be exactly what he or she is doing. It's a shame when human error plays a part in major results, but without ELS loops every 10 metres or so around the race track - and spending several minutes resetting the field at every red - we're never going to get it dead right every time.

[Admin]

(b) R12-3-4
When a red light or red flag is shown, competitors must immediately stop. Failure to stop renders competitors liable to a fine and or disqualification for any period


R12-3-7 Emergency Stoppage
(a) All vehicles must stop immediately on the display of red lights or red flags and remain stationary except under instruction from an Official.

seems to me that even if the protest had been upheld then Farem could have been fined rather than excluded anyway , same goes for Hemi (if he had been protested). I guess your view(ok and mine too sometimes) is distorted by who your favorites are .

Then again i could be looking at the wrong part of the rule book.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2010 16:08:22 GMT 12 MadMarty13B said:

It was just consolation races with 11 /10 cars more wanted to run but SNZ would not allow it as they did not run the night before even though it was just consolations the entry form stipulated the criteria of having to race in the qualifying to be able to run in the consolations so SNZ had to run with the entry form hence why there were only 11 in the consos

Who were the 10/11 other cars, and why on earth weren't they there on qualifying night?

[Deleted]

Simon Joblin's incredible roll. God I hope someone got it on video - would love to see it again.

Yea i did.dont know how put it on here.

[MadMarty13B]

Jan 4, 2010 17:36:38 GMT 12 @basil said:

Jan 4, 2010 16:08:22 GMT 12 MadMarty13B said:

It was just consolation races with 11 /10 cars more wanted to run but SNZ would not allow it as they did not run the night before even though it was just consolations the entry form stipulated the criteria of having to race in the qualifying to be able to run in the consolations so SNZ had to run with the entry form hence why there were only 11 in the consos

Who were the 10/11 other cars, and why on earth weren't they there on qualifying night?

u misread me Basil there were 10/11 in the consolations, mor wanted to run
including drivers that were injured and wanted other driver to drive their cars drivers that had not done the required meetings in time so could not race the champs

[petero]

Whilst what Hemi did - protest - is in the rules and he may want to win at any cost, having the respect of your pears (and us spectators) and being sportsman like is still important as well.

I and many around us were flabbergasted when the reason for the protest came known. Hemi had been a popular discussion point especially over his heat one fail to stop on the red, cause another competitor to pull out due damage caused by Hemi, and then to move himself were he wanted to put himself - and not were directed, which was done eventually.

And then he also moved onto the grass in race two - maybe it was his clutch playing up ?

so many a spectator found it rather hypocritical to protest using this rule considering what we had seen go on.

maybe the protest was thrown out over common sense - or perhaps the old complaint about SNZ - we never saw that happen ;D

This has certainly stirred up some interesting comments from many and varied angles - even having the boss quote from the rule book, must be serious

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2010 17:58:02 GMT 12 MadMarty13B said:

u misread me Basil there were 10/11 in the consolations, mor wanted to run
including drivers that were injured and wanted other driver to drive their cars drivers that had not done the required meetings in time so could not race the champs

Got you now Marty, crikey you had me thinking we were missing out on an even better first night due to 10/11 cars saving themselves for consolations!

[carwrecker]

Jan 4, 2010 17:02:27 GMT 12 Admin said:

(b) R12-3-4
When a red light or red flag is shown, competitors must immediately stop. Failure to stop renders competitors liable to a fine and or disqualification for any period


R12-3-7 Emergency Stoppage
(a) All vehicles must stop immediately on the display of red lights or red flags and remain stationary except under instruction from an Official.

seems to me that even if the protest had been upheld then Farem could have been fined rather than excluded anyway , same goes for Hemi (if he had been protested). I guess your view(ok and mine too sometimes) is distorted by who your favorites are .

Then again i could be looking at the wrong part of the rule book.

Well done Macgor
At last someone who looks at the rule book (the book under which our sport is run and administered)
So the correct answer probably should have been
Protest upheld but as no advantage was gained a minimal fine is imposed and the problem goes away.
Instead we have a situation where a competitor (Hemi ) could appeal the decision because the answer that was handed down is not supported by the rule book
That is my point as I said I don't care who wins or comes second its about doing the process correctly.
It a bit like the Ngatai thing .
If you don't do the process correctly then the answer can always be called into doubt.
In Ngatais case successfully

[muncho]

Jan 4, 2010 17:58:56 GMT 12 petero said:

Whilst what Hemi did - protest - is in the rules and he may want to win at any cost, having the respect of your pears (and us spectators) and being sportsman like is still important as well.

I and many around us were flabbergasted when the reason for the protest came known. Hemi had been a popular discussion point especially over his heat one fail to stop on the red, cause another competitor to pull out due damage caused by Hemi, and then to move himself were he wanted to put himself - and not were directed, which was done eventually.

And then he also moved onto the grass in race two - maybe it was his clutch playing up ?

so many a spectator found it rather hypocritical to protest using this rule considering what we had seen go on.

maybe the protest was thrown out over common sense - or perhaps the old complaint about SNZ - we never saw that happen ;D

This has certainly stirred up some interesting comments from many and varied angles - even having the boss quote from the rule book, must be serious [/quote


rubbish post! why wouldnt hemi protest? hes there to win aint he,or is it because hes won everything there is to win in the sport that he should just shut up?Maybe hes just too d**n good for some people.........You bag hemi for his lack of sportsmanship and so on,yet i think id be right in saying hes been one of speedways better ambassadors for the sport,with flying in from oz to compete reguarly and more then happy to have a chat with the fans whenever he can.Hes always been more then approachable whenever ive had a yarn to him also.Perhaps if it wasnt the waka and wayne hemi,the carpet may have been lifted,with you holding the broom.

[fordzrule]

What's the problem with red lights,on Palmy's last meeting,several times red lights came on in stockcar races,each and everytime cars never stopped immediately,Rees'(amongst others) creeping about 50-75mt each time,so if ya get away with it you'll try it,basic human instinct to grab the advantage,whether it's right or wrong,moral or immoral is up to viewer.

[MadMarty13B]

Jan 4, 2010 18:35:38 GMT 12 @carwrecker said:

Jan 4, 2010 17:02:27 GMT 12 Admin said:

(b) R12-3-4
When a red light or red flag is shown, competitors must immediately stop. Failure to stop renders competitors liable to a fine and or disqualification for any period


R12-3-7 Emergency Stoppage
(a) All vehicles must stop immediately on the display of red lights or red flags and remain stationary except under instruction from an Official.

seems to me that even if the protest had been upheld then Farem could have been fined rather than excluded anyway , same goes for Hemi (if he had been protested). I guess your view(ok and mine too sometimes) is distorted by who your favorites are .

Then again i could be looking at the wrong part of the rule book.

Well done Macgor
At last someone who looks at the rule book (the book under which our sport is run and administered)
So the correct answer probably should have been
Protest upheld but as no advantage was gained a minimal fine is imposed and the problem goes away.
Instead we have a situation where a competitor (Hemi ) could appeal the decision because the answer that was handed down is not supported by the rule book
That is my point as I said I don't care who wins or comes second its about doing the process correctly.
It a bit like the Ngatai thing .
If you don't do the process correctly then the answer can always be called into doubt.
In Ngatais case successfully

Marty I agree with that the process must be done correctly but also the process on the rule on the red lights before protests must be done correctly as well and at the moment cannot seemingly be policed properly

[rick-taylor]

I think that the red light rule in contact classes is a problem in itself.

These cars are putting out pretty decent power, and with technology can get up and go at a fair rate.

They majority also have pretty decent stopping capability.

But... Who is going to slam the brakes on the instant they see a red light if they think that they could get hit by another competitor travelling at speed from behind (intentionally or not), let alone loose any advantage to other cars around the track.

I believe Willy Kay or Baypark might've suggested a rule change around this area that upon a red light in contact classes the field is then aligned indian file on the lead car, regardless of lapped traffic. Ie. similar to a safety car scenario in circuit racing but at a stand still until the red light cause is rectified.

This rule of course has its disadvantages , in that a competitor may loose some track position, but.... the potential safety advantages may be worth assessing further prior to remit time. Not that I like to be in agreement with Willie, but sometimes he is worth listening to.....

Food for thought

[Admin]

I don't think anyone seems to be taking into account the very busy racetrack, the speed along with the daylight making the reds harder to see. There is an awful lot to comprehend and react to . Just as the ref would need ten sets of eyes to see everything that happens.

I still think at the end of the night we had a fair outcome and fairness is more my concern than technicalities at these events.

[MadMarty13B]

Correct

[stockmad]

dale robertson 89r i see he got 7th overall. not bad for his first big meeting in a superstock . dont know how many times he has been behind the wheel of the 89r but he must be one to watch in the future .

[MadMarty13B]

Brand new car and he hasn't had many meetings in it as Dale said totally different to drive to what he is used to so yup he did well

[stockmad]

i more thing iv got to say first time in meeanee and what 2 awsum nights it was. Track looked good and it was good to sit and watch the racing instead of flaging the races. So good on meeanee for putting on a good show and the drivers

[Roxcyford]

all this bagging of hemi because he is such a skillfull & successfull driver makes me fume he flies over here every week-end to entertain the speedway public & gets this nutse if i were him i would buy a sprintcar & go race at paremmatta .p.s its not nutse not allowed to use the word i wanted to use

[petero]

Jan 4, 2010 18:36:19 GMT 12 muncho said:

Jan 4, 2010 17:58:56 GMT 12 petero said:

Whilst what Hemi did - protest - is in the rules and he may want to win at any cost, having the respect of your pears (and us spectators) and being sportsman like is still important as well.

I and many around us were flabbergasted when the reason for the protest came known. Hemi had been a popular discussion point especially over his heat one fail to stop on the red, cause another competitor to pull out due damage caused by Hemi, and then to move himself were he wanted to put himself - and not were directed, which was done eventually.

And then he also moved onto the grass in race two - maybe it was his clutch playing up ?

so many a spectator found it rather hypocritical to protest using this rule considering what we had seen go on.

maybe the protest was thrown out over common sense - or perhaps the old complaint about SNZ - we never saw that happen ;D

This has certainly stirred up some interesting comments from many and varied angles - even having the boss quote from the rule book, must be serious [/quote


rubbish post! why wouldnt hemi protest? hes there to win aint he,or is it because hes won everything there is to win in the sport that he should just shut up?Maybe hes just too d**n good for some people.........You bag hemi for his lack of sportsmanship and so on,yet i think id be right in saying hes been one of speedways better ambassadors for the sport,with flying in from oz to compete reguarly and more then happy to have a chat with the fans whenever he can.Hes always been more then approachable whenever ive had a yarn to him also.Perhaps if it wasnt the waka and wayne hemi,the carpet may have been lifted,with you holding the broom.

Rubbish post you say, Bagging Hemi you say - not at all, just passing on what was observed and commented on at the time and the general feeling around us.
Hemi came under much conversation about his movement under reds in both heats, so the crowd found it rather ironic to see Hemi protest for something he had clearly been guilty of himself twice.

The first incident was more the talking point as he left the track, ended up stopped on the grass, so how he then moves and plonks himself somewhere else - before SNZ intervened (much to the amusement of the crowd) and had him heading back several places.

as others have pointed out, there is rules for red lights, SNZ to police it, issues with even seeing the red lights plus others doing the same, so many other factors as well.

The fact that Hemi protested, for those that had watched and discussed said incidents leading up to ht 3, of course people were surprised (and many other less mild descriptions) - only human nature

just sometimes it is so much better to win it on the track rather than in the protest room