Should any rule be over looked? (Read 4,048 times)

[mrmadtaylor]

Should any rule be over looked?

In this photo I see no number on the side of the wing.... the car must have been green sheated... but rule T12-1-14 must have been over looked. So could this little rule cost him a result if protested?



T12-1-14 Racing Numbers
Refer also Section T7.
(a) Numbers to be of contrasting colours and to be placed;
(i) between the front and rear wheels on both sides of the
vehicle. Numbers to be on the body or side panels in a
visible area, so that they can be read from a minimum of
30m away at ground level.
(ii) on both sides of the fin or aerofoil.
(iii) on the rear of the vehicle.
(b) Numbers to be prepared to a professional standard. Cardboard
and tape type numbers are not acceptable.
(c) The background colour must be a minimum of 20mm.
(d) Rear numbers only to be a minimum height of 190mm with a
minimum width of 30mm. Must be placed in a visible area and
able to be read from a minimum 30m away at ground level
from the rear of the vehicle.
(e) Numbers on both sides shall be a minimum height of 380mm
with a minimum width of 50mm.
(f) A fin, with a minimum area of 300mm square, with a racing
number on each side, shall be mounted on roof in such a
position that the number can be read from each side of the car,
and shall be a minimum height of 190mm with a width of
30mm for the numbers.

[joker9377]

Its pretty easy to see his number most times as the car is clean and out the pointy end of the pack... ;D ;D

[Pazza]

Yes there should b a number ALSO look at were the wing comes 2 on the body..At the nzgp at palmy last week Mark Woods 517s had 2 shorten his wing as they said it went past the roof drip moulding BUT 8m,12w & many others went under the radar as did about 4 palmy supers that weekend were is the consistonsy here Surly if 1 is wrong the others r 2..

Just my veiw.

[chevkiwi]

Perhaps while we are on the numbers subject, both the joblin cars should be looked at because 1/ their numbers are extremely hard to read and 2/ they dont look to be the legal height of 375mm. Surely these cars have been green sheeted too so who missed that?

[bill75]

Maybe a refund of $600 from SNZ will help. Whats the point of electronic lapscoring then? So we know how fast a lap you did? When I raced at Knoxville there were 7 number 11 cars......they had no scoring issues there. I think we need to look at the big picture here and its not number sizes or colours.....its 2010 lets get with the program. If the blue box is crap get AMB (which maybe they should have in the first place).

[HIGHWAY45]

lets have everyone get personal and pick out some cars and find something wrong with them....

[chevkiwi]

Pazza, 7p has had to chop his wing down to size too ..... silly rule does not actually achieve anything really. And Bill I see your point about transponders but its the paying public who also need to read the numbers and Im afraid in the Joblins case their numbers are both hard to read and illegal height so either of them was to win a big title they could be protested. This is definately not tall poppy syndrome here, just fairness for all.
I could name a few more with ridiculous numbers in all classes but will not, surely this is up to the scrutineers.

[deno Tank 9c]

E mail any thing you believe is wrong with any cars to SNZ and ask them to clarify . They will soon get sick of answering Emails and sort their s**t out. Its their job to sort it so make em sort it !!

[Brett85p]

Jan 15, 2010 9:03:50 GMT 12 chevkiwi said:

Pazza, 7p has had to chop his wing down to size too ..... silly rule does not actually achieve anything really. And Bill I see your point about transponders but its the paying public who also need to read the numbers and Im afraid in the Joblins case their numbers are both hard to read and illegal height so either of them was to win a big title they could be protested. This is definately not tall poppy syndrome here, just fairness for all.
I could name a few more with ridiculous numbers in all classes but will not, surely this is up to the scrutineers.

It would depend on if there is some advantage gained by having the numbers smaller or obscure. If it is only disadvantaging the driver then not sure that such a protest would result in lost placings, maybe a fine.

[The Godfather]

The type of penalty imposed is only a part of it.

the point is, if it doesnt comply then it is not a legal car no matter how stupid the rule.

We have had one car here that was not going to be allowed to race recently because the track code letter was in front of the number not after !!!

It was the right size, colour and everything but the rulebook says '' the number followed by the letter'' and so it even got written in the log book !! Some days eh.........

[organgrinder]

all rules should be enforced otherwise why have a rule book at all.

[thetrio]

What a great topic!! Aren't rules rules?? I was recently at the NZ saloon champs where I personally witnessed numerous misdemeanours with "officialdom" in respect to the rules. For starters on inspection several cars had, small, but neverless, not within the rules issues such as incorrect housing on vacuum secondary, motors too far forward/back, but where allowed to modify prior to racing. another apparently (rumours have it) did not have an engine seal, but was also allowed to race. Yet another driver at the north Islands had a metering block in his carburtettor but was not allowed to remove this to race, but trailered, and possibly suspended. I'm still trying to figure it all out. If you turn upto any championship & you are outside the RULES -shouldn't it be no racing, otherwise abolish rules.

[Teams Junkie]

Jan 15, 2010 9:03:50 GMT 12 chevkiwi said:

Pazza, 7p has had to chop his wing down to size too ..... silly rule does not actually achieve anything really. And Bill I see your point about transponders but its the paying public who also need to read the numbers and Im afraid in the Joblins case their numbers are both hard to read and illegal height so either of them was to win a big title they could be protested. This is definately not tall poppy syndrome here, just fairness for all.
I could name a few more with ridiculous numbers in all classes but will not, surely this is up to the scrutineers.

Geez things are getting pretty pedantic if a driver would protest a result because of the number sizing!

[phoenixdaz]

Looking at either side of the argument here and I can see merit to both.

Rules are rules and should be followed. If they are followed to the t then there are no problems whatsoever. Teams Junkie is right though, it is a bit pedantic to protest a race win over not having a number. But if the officials decide that the car is fine to race at the beginning of the night with the numbers as is then this shouldn't happen.

I understand the prep that goes into getting a race car to the track and the maintenance involved. My question is, all that preparation, and you ignore rules that could put you out for a night, it's a bit of a silly oversight isn't it.

My opinion is that rules that affect safety and rules that can increase or decrease the performance of a car should %100 be followed at all times. Rules such as not having a number on a wing / fin / aerofoil, shall we call them trivial rules, there should be a bit of leniency but perhaps continued infringements should have some form of penalty. ie "hey you need a number on your wing, get it done by this by xyz date"

[karencarey]

Jan 15, 2010 8:35:44 GMT 12 bill75 said:

Maybe a refund of $600 from SNZ will help. Whats the point of electronic lapscoring then? So we know how fast a lap you did? When I raced at Knoxville there were 7 number 11 cars......they had no scoring issues there. I think we need to look at the big picture here and its not number sizes or colours.....its 2010 lets get with the program. If the blue box is crap get AMB (which maybe they should have in the first place).

People seem to get hung up on the ELS when it comes to numbers. Just remember the referees are not electronic, nor are the comentators, the crowd, the infield crew etc. When St Johns are told to check the guy in 14 and there are three of them it gets confusing. Likewise when they tell the flag man to move car 6 back a bit and there are two I bet the driver will be annoyed if he is the wrong 6 and is moved.

I am one who believes that rules should be enforced reguardless and if the rule is stupid or outdated then change it through the due process.
As someone on the rulebook task force I can tell you we have found a lot of these stupid rules that will hopefully be removed at the SGM. We have also found some good ones hidden in obscure places.
Here is an example of an odd one:
G13-8-8 Vehicles Nos 1, 2 and 3 be reserved for New Zealand
Championship placegetters, to be displayed if competitor so
wishes until the next Championship is run. No other competitor
is to use these numbers.
Stockcars 1, 2 and 3 must be red on white or white on red.
I guess most of our NZ stockcar champions have had illegal numbers.
The short answer to your question is yes however there is room within the rules to allow until the next meeting to rectify a rule infringement that does not give an advantage or is not a safety issue.
I would think that someone who wins by protesting out another competitor who has the wrong colour numbers or is still wearing an earing isn't really a winner at all.
Just my opinion.

[Topcat]

Sori - rule got to be the same for everyone, rule says both sides of fin or aerofoil and rear and sides of body - same for everyone - all cars need to do it.

[Regan O'Brien]

i cant see why we cant just have a big number on top of the roof or on top of the wing like shane has.If you look at Shanes car in the stands he has a bigger than big 7P in the middle which would be easier to read than a little 7p.

[mining 126]

have a look on snz rollcages to see what happens when a rule is overlooked for years

[Murray Guy (Grandad)]

The question is, "Should any rule be over looked?" Lack of a stockcar wing number used as an example.

Perhaps in this instance an official applied some lateral thinking, asking, what is the intent of the rule and does this car meet that intent. Seems to me that the example used definetly meets the intent - it's number is clearly quite readable, likely more so than many!

All rules are not the same, nor is the intent regarding enforcement, neither are the penalties applied. SNZ rules are no different to all manner of rules in society that govern our behaviour - they are to be read in the context of the intent, penalties, if any, are to be applied relative to the degree / severity of infringement mindful of who is disadvantaged, who are the victims, and to what degree.

Not all rules are intended to be strickly enforced, but rather used as a 'tool' by those in authority as needs dictate (EG: smacking children). The lack of a wing number clearly is victimless, nobody is disadvantaged, and the car complies with the intent.

All of the above aside, surely in 2010 with electronic lap scoring, sign writing as used as an example, the rules relevant to numbers couold be a lot simpler. Bottom line, if your car cannot be reasonably and easilly identified in all race light conditions, then perhaps, it is non-compliant. In the event the electronic system fails and legible car numbers are required by lap scorers, the competitor the competitor that can't be identified will be the loser, no one else. In 9 or so seasons of racing with transmitters I have yet to experience a total track system failure.

Rules should be applied with integrity, but for the purpose of meeting the intent, NOT as a means to frustrate folk, pander to an at risk ego of an official or disgrunted competitor that can't win on the track.

[FantomFan]

I believe a Sprintcar at Ruapuna was excluded several years ago due to his number being 2mm undersize - result of a protest following the last race.