Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2012 12:26:14 GMT 12
So if perfection is unatainable we just ignore the issue and carry on?  i am sure we all agree that perfection is not possible but trying to improve is. Why is it you start screaming costs??? i am not saying view every replay looking for fault, but this could be used in regards to double checking what was seen was in fact seen correctly, used as back up like most tracks still use manual lap scoring in case the electronic lap scoring fails. Pole line infringements have been a big factor this year and even some refs admit seeing the pole line from the infield is difficult. why does every ref have to be on the infield??? why can't some be in the stands??? if anything they would more than likely get a better view full stop. Everyone moans regarding refs calls and abuse of drivers etc etc etc, so why not attempt to fix some of these issues. A ref that can explain incidents such as rees's fire at time of incident would be great, you can't tel me small ideas like the above will blow the buget!!! ;D Did I say ignore it? I said it's not as one-sided as people perceive it to be. And I didnt SCREAM costs, didnt use capitals or several exclamation marks anywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D I dont think poleline infringements were that critical at teams champs this year, but they directly impacted on the overall result last year. I've been advocating a spotter in the grandstand for donkeys years, and I have no idea if that has ever been used. |
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Post by stubbs5115 on Feb 8, 2012 12:58:35 GMT 12
My question is why do palmy supporters just not understand why we "hate" the panthers.
They have won teams champs a darn site more than any other team by miles, we just want a different winner, we all want our home track to succed or anyone else that aint palmy.
I dont hate any of the panther drivers at all, im sure the panther drivers dont mind us yelling smash the p, although the douchebags that go into the pits and abuse them or throw cans at them is just disgusting sportsmanship.
Im an avid WAIKATO fan, i was all dressed up in my cape and mask yelling smash the p etc but i was the first one in my group to clap for the panthers when they went past us, they dont get to hear my cowbell lol.
So my point is to the Panther fans out there, we are just having fun stop hating on us for cheering how we cheer and instead hate on the small amount of people out there that abuse the kids in the crowds and the crews and drivers in the pits.
P.S i was drinking so i was intoxicated but i still know my boundaries and i appreciate EVERY SINGLE DRIVER that risks not only their cars every year at palmy but their lives also.
Rant over from one big WAIKATO WANDERERS FAN- Cheers Jordon Smith
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Post by Skorp on Feb 8, 2012 13:18:45 GMT 12
Someone mentioned having spotters placed around the track. As one of the flag marshals on the weekend, I can say there there were definitely spotters placed around the track and at the end of each teams race they reported in to the refs up in the tower with any incidents they saw during the race. They didn't recommend any penalties for infringements, they simply stated the facts of what they saw. Including Rees and the pole-line in the semi-final against Rotorua. The spotter on the outside reported that he saw Rees put a single wheel on the pole-line when passing a couple of cars to take the lead and left it to the refs to decide what to do about it. Clearly the ref, who is from Rotorua didn't feel he gained any advantage from it. I was also disappointed when they moved the two Rotorua cars back and left Rees where he was, as I knew what the response from supporters of other teams was going to be, and I felt that Rees should have been moved back too, even though I really wanted the Panthers to win.
As for a video ref, I don't think it will make things any better. It would just slow things down and drag the night out even more. However, for big meets like the Teams Champs I think that all results should be unofficial pending a review of the video footage after racing has concluded. For example, any incidents that are in question should be looked at on the video replay following each race before a final decision is made. This will probably require a separate team of people to quickly view and edit the footage during each race so that the officials can make their decisions as quickly as possible, without slowing the flow of the night down.
Its a pity that a couple of incidents have taken away from what was otherwise a great weekend of teams racing with most of the racing being very clean, and only a couple of cars removed from the track for infringements, Dave Tarrant and one of the Waikato cars who attacked from the grass are the only two I can think of, and IMO both were 50/50 calls.
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Post by kiwisnoopy on Feb 8, 2012 13:24:06 GMT 12
So if perfection is unatainable we just ignore the issue and carry on? i am sure we all agree that perfection is not possible but trying to improve is. Why is it you start screaming costs??? i am not saying view every replay looking for fault, but this could be used in regards to double checking what was seen was in fact seen correctly, used as back up like most tracks still use manual lap scoring in case the electronic lap scoring fails. Pole line infringements have been a big factor this year and even some refs admit seeing the pole line from the infield is difficult. why does every ref have to be on the infield??? why can't some be in the stands??? if anything they would more than likely get a better view full stop. Everyone moans regarding refs calls and abuse of drivers etc etc etc, so why not attempt to fix some of these issues. A ref that can explain incidents such as rees's fire at time of incident would be great, you can't tel me small ideas like the above will blow the buget!!! ;D Did I say ignore it? I said it's not as one-sided as people perceive it to be. And I didnt SCREAM costs, didnt use capitals or several exclamation marks anywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D I dont think poleline infringements were that critical at teams champs this year, but they directly impacted on the overall result last year. I've been advocating a spotter in the grandstand for donkeys years, and I have no idea if that has ever been used. Yes Spotters have been used and were around the outside of the track as they are at most major meetings at PN. |
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Post by Backskidder on Feb 8, 2012 13:32:42 GMT 12
Including Rees and the pole-line in the semi-final against Rotorua. The spotter on the outside reported that he saw Rees put a single wheel on the pole-line when passing a couple of cars to take the lead and left it to the refs to decide what to do about it. Clearly the ref, who is from Rotorua didn't feel he gained any advantage from it What is the rule regarding the pole line? Can someone please clarify? |
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Post by rightnut37 on Feb 8, 2012 13:33:30 GMT 12
Ill start by saying what an awesome win to the panthers!!! wooohoooo ;D However,after taking s#!t from rotorua fans all weekend (about 6 girls dressed in cowboy hats and entourage,all with rebel gear on) i decided to give a bit back on night 2.Now i dont mind a good bit of banter,but these sore losers were just pathetic.First of all when rees car caught fire 1 of them thought it was good to keep screaming out "burn ya bastard" and "let him burn".Second when they put out rees fire they were enraged!! "Get the fu#@en cheat off" and "palmy c#!t" F this F that etc etc.If any of you girls are reading this 1) Go read the rulebook before you mouth off and 2) Its only sport!! Did i say congrats to the mighty panthers?  Must also add,i had some tigers fans next to me who were also sick of the abuse they were saying.Never thought id agree with tigers fans ;D ;D PS had great pleasure in farewelling them when the panthers won the final ;D PLEASE muncho show everyone the word for word ruling on this situation, then maby 90% of the country can lay it to rest! Now as for you stating that they were nuting of at the tigers or waikato you are very wrong as the only team WE were throwing banter at was the panthers ! As drivers i have 100% respect for them when they play to the same rules everyone else has to , but as the panthers well they are a team that is against the rest of the country ! Please with you starting a thread like this i was just wondering if you happend to be the avid panther supporter that hapend to start the crap with the girls or just the one that jumped in mid way and now happens to be a little upset that they were a little faster with the witt than you??? To dirt-fan no there was no alcohol just some avid passion for the team |
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Post by Skorp on Feb 8, 2012 13:43:31 GMT 12
Including Rees and the pole-line in the semi-final against Rotorua. The spotter on the outside reported that he saw Rees put a single wheel on the pole-line when passing a couple of cars to take the lead and left it to the refs to decide what to do about it. Clearly the ref, who is from Rotorua didn't feel he gained any advantage from it This is where I have an issue (Im not sure if the rule is on the pole line or over the pole) however if the rule is ON or OVER the pole line it needs to be enforced. Regardless of weather an advantege is gained or not - the rule is there, enforce it. No wonder so many in the crowd are getting fed up. The rules regarding the pole-line are a bit vague, they pretty much say that you can't gain an advantage from crossing the pole-line, while at the same time not saying whether having a wheel on the pole-line is considered crossing it. |
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Post by Backskidder on Feb 8, 2012 13:48:08 GMT 12
This is where I have an issue (Im not sure if the rule is on the pole line or over the pole) however if the rule is ON or OVER the pole line it needs to be enforced. Regardless of weather an advantege is gained or not - the rule is there, enforce it. No wonder so many in the crowd are getting fed up. The rules regarding the pole-line are a bit vague, they pretty much say that you can't gain an advantage from crossing the pole-line, while at the same time not saying whether having a wheel on the pole-line is considered crossing it. Thanks Skorpion |
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Post by kiwisnoopy on Feb 8, 2012 13:50:06 GMT 12
R12-4-4 SUPERSTOCK and STOCKCAR TEAMS RACING RULES
(a) Teams races begin with clutch starts only. The display of red
light or flags signifies the stopping of a race immediately even if
your race is run. Competitors must not pass other competitors,
nor move to any other position unless instructed by an official.
Competitors may freely proceed under green or orange lights or
flags.
(b) Placing one or more wheels inside the pole line is considered
breaking the rules of racing, repeated offences may attract a
penalty and/or a fine.
(c) A competitor forced infield must give way once pushed over the
pole line and return to the race once the track is clear.
Passing inside the pole line will attract either a fine and/or the
team may be excluded. The infield is not for racing, any
vehicles on the infield must disengage from contact and return
to the track in the same corner or straight from which they left
the track.
(d) Attacking another competitor from inside pole line will attract
either a fine or individual exclusion on the driver and/or the
team may be excluded.
(e) Any competitor deliberately driving infield (to avoid oncoming
cars) for a sanctuary (to gain advantage) will attract a fine on
the driver, or the driver may be excluded.
(f) Forcing competing cars into stationary cars will attract either a
fine, individual exclusion and/or the team may be excluded.
The situation of stationary cars is of the utmost importance.
Competitors who wish to be removed from their vehicle must give
the "thumbs down” signal, motionless drivers will obviously
bring the race to a red flag stop.
Drivers on the racing surface in a blocking role will be
considered to be part of the race and must realise that
deliberate contact may occur.
Attacking cars MUST avoid cars that are in a non attacking
position.
(Any inference that one can legitimately hit all stationary cars
has been removed from the rules.)
202
(g) Drivers must only drive in the correct direction. When the way is
blocked by the wall or another vehicle one may reverse to clear
the obstruction.
Drivers must not travel in the wrong direction unless the way is
blocked by the wall or another vehicle.
When travelling in the wrong direction as just mentioned the
track must be clear of on-coming vehicles, deliberate contact
when travelling in the wrong direction will attract a fine, and/or
individual exclusion, and/or the Team may be excluded.
(h) Drivers may select reverse gear to move in the race direction
without penalty.
Drivers may select reverse gear to cross to the track surface
from the infield by the shortest route. When travelling onto the
track as just mentioned the track must be clear of on-coming
vehicles.
Drivers who reverse travelling in the wrong direction to
reposition on the track will attract a fine.
(i) The winning team will be decided by 'first past the post' or
points. Promotions must clearly advertise the chosen system
and any points that will be awarded.
(j) Team managers must act in a responsible and professional
manner and may seek verbal clarifications from the Steward
and drivers representative. Team managers may assist with
paper work requirements and gain driver's signatures as
required.
The Team Manager's name must be submitted at the time of
team entry, any changes to team or manager to be submitted in
writing to the Steward of the meeting.
(k) Abusive conduct by competitors and/or managers against other
competitors or officials will be treated as a breach of conduct
and may attract a penalty on the team concerned.
(l) When a senior Referee is in control of teams racing, NO protests
can be entered into.
(m) Penalties - at the discretion of the referee
(i) Fine: $100 to $1,000
(ii) Individual Exclusion (from the meeting). An exclusion in
any one race by a non winning driver is not a penalty.
(iii) Team Exclusion
(n) Appeals are permitted.
This is the code of ethics, not the rule re wheels over the pole line Repeated offences MAY attract a penalty or fine.
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Post by BarryB on Feb 8, 2012 13:52:43 GMT 12
The dirt is the race track
The grass is the infield
The concrete pole line is part of the infield
Off the dirt and you're on the grass
That is black and white
What is not so clear sometimes is the advantage ruling, and it's impossible to make that a completely black and white rule that covers every set of circumstances.
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Post by kiwisnoopy on Feb 8, 2012 14:00:31 GMT 12
The teams code of ethics, under which the teams champs are run, makes no mention about gaining an advantage by putting a wheel over the pole line. That is only mentioned in the general rules, but the Teams Champs are run under the Code Of Ethics.
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l8dog
Full Member
rubbing is racing putting them up the wall is entertainment
Posts: 209
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Post by l8dog on Feb 8, 2012 14:18:34 GMT 12
Why do people hate Palmy? Is it because we win more than most or drivers choose to rave at Palmy rather than their track. I would love to hear people reasons as to why the "Hate Palmy" Ok i will bite lol ;D There is a common miss conception here and that is usually based around two different words being used, 1) Panthers 2) Drivers. I hate the panthers with a passion always have but in saying that i don't dislike the drivers, in fact i even follow two of them on a regular basis, my partner likes three of them and follows with interest, but the moment they put on the panther body work they are the mortal enemy, why is that hard to understand?? There has also been some dodgy calls over the years that have gone the panthers way and yes this is not fault of the drivers but fault of SNZ Refs During the Semi between Rotorua and Palmy rees put his left front wheel over the pole line on two different occasions, now this is not rees bashing nor am i trying to take away what was a brilliant drive by him, fact is he did. my point here is, also taking into consideration the fire on night one, is how can a car that catches fire and is put out by marshals not be considered outside help??? if they didn't put it out he would have burnt to a crisp. if a car is up the wall they are removed for safety reasons?? how is this different, how is rees wheel over the pole line not considered a rule break?? Unfortunately this is a SNZ failure but fans will always see it as Panthers getting favoured, Fans will always take their frustration out on them rather than where it should be pointed..........at SNZ Refs Good example a few years back Miers came out in the tank for the final but was not happy with the rollcage repairs so was allowed to change cars on the infeild which took some time, what rule allows this was alot longer than a 3 minute bell, again will be seen as favouring the panthers and again fans get frustrated..........SNZ need to sort this. over the years there have been many reasons to dislike the panthers which include a Mr West abusing the nelson crowd, calling them everything under the sun and to go home they are not wanted, reason?? nelson fans were throwing water bombs at them during grand parade, funny thing about it was Miers had a big chilly bin full on his car and throwing them back!!! Remember it is a dislike to the panthers and not the latest crop of panther drivers, there is a difference!! So now you know some things that other non palmy fans may be thinking, those are some of my reasons there are many more..............you asked, so don't moan!! lmao ;D This post sums up exactly where i come from and have witnessed all these events. I have much respect for the drivers that put their bodys on the line. But i have seen to many golden handshakes in the past given to the PANTHERS TEAM not current drivers. I will always dislike the panthers and you cant change that the same as ill always dislike fords but i will applaud the drivers when they work for it and deserve the win(rees vs rotorua). I am friendly with the panthers supporters that sit around me and always shake hands at the end of the final with a smile and a good word and look forward to seeing them next year. |
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Post by muncho on Feb 8, 2012 14:57:25 GMT 12
Ill start by saying what an awesome win to the panthers!!! wooohoooo ;D However,after taking s#!t from rotorua fans all weekend (about 6 girls dressed in cowboy hats and entourage,all with rebel gear on) i decided to give a bit back on night 2.Now i dont mind a good bit of banter,but these sore losers were just pathetic.First of all when rees car caught fire 1 of them thought it was good to keep screaming out "burn ya bastard" and "let him burn".Second when they put out rees fire they were enraged!! "Get the fu#@en cheat off" and "palmy c#!t" F this F that etc etc.If any of you girls are reading this 1) Go read the rulebook before you mouth off and 2) Its only sport!! Did i say congrats to the mighty panthers? Must also add,i had some tigers fans next to me who were also sick of the abuse they were saying.Never thought id agree with tigers fans ;D ;D PS had great pleasure in farewelling them when the panthers won the final ;D PLEASE muncho show everyone the word for word ruling on this situation, then maby 90% of the country can lay it to rest! Now as for you stating that they were nuting of at the tigers or waikato you are very wrong as the only team WE were throwing banter at was the panthers ! As drivers i have 100% respect for them when they play to the same rules everyone else has to , but as the panthers well they are a team that is against the rest of the country ! Please with you starting a thread like this i was just wondering if you happend to be the avid panther supporter that hapend to start the crap with the girls or just the one that jumped in mid way and now happens to be a little upset that they were a little faster with the witt than you??? To dirt-fan no there was no alcohol just some avid passion for the team LOL .I didnt know you were a moderator and judged what threads were acceptable or not.........but to answer your questions.I was an avid supporter of palmy yes,but in NO way at all did me or my partner start abusing anyone at any stage like you say >:(They had witt? ? Where?? Because i saw none of it,just a couple of ranting schoolgirls who went silent numerous times after i gave them a couple humourous barbs.Never went personal like them,in fact the mrs said one of them called me a idiot and started flipping the bird,which is when i knew i may have gotten under there skin.BTW i was the maori guy about 6" tall with black jeans and grey hoodie.Which 1 were you??? The one who wanted to punch the tigers fan for taking up 2 rows of seating....while you lot had 6 rows to yourselves!!!! Or were you the 1 who was screaming panthers take it up the a$$ in full voice with kids all around?? |
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Post by penman on Feb 8, 2012 15:54:39 GMT 12
Anyone who acts in the fashions described above is detrimental to the sport, their team and the way speedway is publicly viewed.
Passion is one thing - and should be encouraged. Idiocy, loutish behaviour and abuse is something quite different.
It's a bit like racing really - a pity a few more people don't know where the line is.
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Post by rightnut37 on Feb 8, 2012 15:57:35 GMT 12
Was very nice to meet! Yes i know which one you were and no the bulk of the banter was not directed at you it happend to be directed at the bloke that was next to you in the stand that we were in who yes happend to be in the middle of a direct line from the girls to you! no i was not nor wer any of our group the guy who wantad to start a fight the last 15 years of being in palmy have never resulted in wanting to or being involved in any fights! As it happens to be the guy you happen to be talking about was a panther supporter that was up set that the tiger fan wanted to put his legs down but the guy didn't want anyone behind him because he didn't want to have knees in his back like the rest of us did! If you were really paying attention you would have happend to notice that our 6 rows you speak of also happend to be full of thoes nelson guys you say we were abusing when we were supporting!
As i enjoy being a member of macgors i will now wish you well with life, as said eariler it was nice to meet you !
Hope to see you in aucks and again next year happy supporting!!!
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tman
Full Member
Posts: 226
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Post by tman on Feb 8, 2012 17:04:01 GMT 12
i personally didnt have any problem with any decisions the refs made, i thought palmy deserved to win considering who they beat to win. I actually stayed sober this year and i did notice a little bit of abuse,not just by drunk people though so i dont blame it all on alcohol. I think people just get caught up in the moment. As for abusing drivers in the pits,kick them out and never let them back again,thats embarrising and uncalled for.Without the drivers we have no teams
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Post by Ford Prefect on Feb 8, 2012 17:46:23 GMT 12
Absolutely black and white. The concrete bit is the pole line. A well inside it, i.e the grass is cutting,...........a wheel on it isn't.
The fire one is a dumb rule, outside assistance is outside assistance. I'm a Panthers supporter and I thought Rees should have been taken off, but as I understand it putting out a fire isn't considered assistance. This should surely be covered at drivers briefing so everyone on track knows whats happening?
The ppl that constantly moan about "P" cars getting favoured should have a look back over the history of this event and have a look at some of the crap decisions that have gone against the Panthers over the years e.g Hemi being dq'ed, Miers being trailered, Holmes being pulled off for no apparent reason..........Panthers B having to put a sloper up against a Gurney eagle in a run off etc etc etc. It doesn't always go their way and alot of the time it doesn't, but when it does everyone cries foul?
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Post by Shai-tan on Feb 8, 2012 17:51:25 GMT 12
I had more of an issue with a Bad Winner over the weekend than sore losers...
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Post by Ford Prefect on Feb 8, 2012 18:03:15 GMT 12
well that's not confined to Panther supporters ............ a few of the Tigers supporters a couple of years ago couldn't exactly be considered gracious winners either but that is not all Nelson supporters. My experience has been that most go to these events to have a good time whatever the result. However there's idiots in every group (including Panthers supporters) and it's not only confined to speedway.
It's just the way of the world and not worth worrying about (sermon over LOL)
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Post by Shai-tan on Feb 8, 2012 18:07:30 GMT 12
well that's not confined to Panther supporters ............ a few of the Tigers supporters a couple of years ago couldn't exactly be considered gracious winners either but that is not all Nelson supporters. My experience has been that most go to these events to have a good time whatever the result. However there's idiots in every group (including Panthers supporters) and it's not only confined to speedway. It's just the way of the world and not worth worrying about (sermon over LOL) Guess I don't like to be told over and over to "Go Home" and them putting down drivers and friends I was there to support, when I didn't say a word to the person or make any remarks which would antagonise him or his team. Traveled a long distance, waited a long time each day and paid a lot of money to have a great weekend and didn't really appreciate it to be honest. Heres hoping next year is better..... |
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i am sure we all agree that perfection is not possible but trying to improve is. 
Must also add,i had some tigers fans next to me who were also sick of the abuse they were saying.Never thought id agree with tigers fans ;D ;D
