srr
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by srr on Jul 1, 2013 20:55:06 GMT 12
just get a wreacked falcon and slap it in the hole eh. sounds awsume until you have to deal with a speed senser on gearbox hello engine wont run lets get another ecu and program it to run engine. I love the way how simple it sounds. if the intension was still in the rule book things wouldn't be so grey. stock cars are going faster now than a graders not long ago but we still limit suspension and brakes (ie) safety issues to stockcars. limit engines put a resrictor on the in and the out then what can we have 120 cars all going the same speed. talent standing out and crowd entertainment value goes up. I think there is another thread in here what does speedway need. value for crowd and competitor. I am not a keyboard racer but just wanted to have my say thanks. don't get me wrong I still love the sport to go forward but maybe in super classes.
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Post by scotty 911w on Jul 1, 2013 21:27:11 GMT 12
ill stick my std au efi saloon on a dyno if someone wants to pay for it:) I'll put up $500, prefer someone like Nelson Hartley to be involved. ,ok im sure i could use the benefit of mr hartleys insights  would you want to use oem exhaust manifold as well?as i run a drainpipe at the moment :)and would we need to change fuel pumps?do the carbys have a return line?other than that shouldnt be too hard,swap manifolds,wire up dizzy. oh hang on, someone would need to supply a restrictor plate for efi test. |
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Post by tank11 on Jul 1, 2013 21:39:18 GMT 12
Correct Scotty, there will be some thinking required.......
We would want to get a true comparison of the AU with stock exhaust, injection, snz/oem ecu etc back step by step to say an el/ef with 350 carb, inlet, 3 wire dizzy etc.
About 6 sets of dyno I presume, shouldn't need to ring the arse off the motor.
You still up for it?
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Post by tank11 on Jul 1, 2013 21:40:29 GMT 12
Just mentioned Mr Hartley, as he seems interested in the injection case.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 6:03:48 GMT 12
Just mentioned Mr Hartley, as he seems interested in the injection case. mmm and wonder why, could be he has a few engines sitting ready waiting to go, to my knowledge its simple if you keen to run one apply to trial it and make sure you have plenty of paper work to go with it to show benefits and costs etc, as to my understanding the lack of paper work around the trial showing all benefits costings etc around these motors is a good part of why it was not passed |
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Post by scotty 911w on Jul 2, 2013 7:04:51 GMT 12
Just mentioned Mr Hartley, as he seems interested in the injection case. mmm and wonder why, could be he has a few engines sitting ready waiting to go, to my knowledge its simple if you keen to run one apply to trial it and make sure you have plenty of paper work to go with it to show benefits and costs etc, as to my understanding the lack of paper work around the trial showing all benefits costings etc around these motors is a good part of why it was not passed how much paper work could there be?a recipt from wrecker,an engine seal, still 15k cheaper than a designer label engine id have thought saftey would be #1 priority.i know which engined car id rather be upside down in! |
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Post by tank11 on Jul 2, 2013 12:28:06 GMT 12
Nelson , Gribbs not the old man.
Nelson did a segment on "smack Torque" about the injected motors being the way to go.
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Post by tank11 on Jul 2, 2013 12:29:22 GMT 12
Scotty nailed it, as Nelson said on "smack torque"
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srr
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by srr on Jul 2, 2013 23:17:03 GMT 12
speedway nz computors only do ignition curves there is no programing for injector on timing a/f ratios etc. falcon std ecu will not run with out spped sensor input hence after market ecu (I wonder who will sell them) fuel system set up of tank pumps and return line we be a cost. 50psi is easy to control? how many litres per sec do they pump. because no one has ever smashed a manifold off!!!! will those high pressure/ volume lines run inside or outside of car.(does any other dirt form run f/inj) i have one car in dirt track we run it a lot of them run f/inj man can you chea$#@@$ sorry inturpretate the rules easily. just make sure this is were you guys want this class to go. (put intention back in the rule book) (if unhappy you guys can sort this out with your bumpers y/n)I will still build my engines with carb no high rises they still go good.
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Post by Wingnut99 on Jul 3, 2013 8:24:36 GMT 12
speedway nz computors only do ignition curves Wrong...SNZ Computor does two approved ECU's one does ignition only, the other does EFI.because no one has ever smashed a manifold off!!!! So whats your point?will those high pressure/ volume lines run inside or outside of car. The fuel lines would be in the same place that stockcars run thier fuel lines now(does any other dirt form run f/inj) Yes...Streetstocksi have one car in dirt track we run it a lot of them run f/inj man can you chea$#@@$ sorry inturpretate the rules easily. Please explain....the SNZ ECU is sealed and can be checked with a reader if its been "hacked" the reader will make the ECU Illegal and its 12 months holiday.just make sure this is were you guys want this class to go. (put intention back in the rule book) (if unhappy you guys can sort this out with your bumpers y/n)I will still build my engines with carb no high rises they still go good. |
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Post by tank11 on Jul 3, 2013 10:16:00 GMT 12
I'm glad you could interprete that wingnut.
Proddys run EFI as well, longer than streeties.
If the fittings are done properly, there will be no problems.
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Post by peteg181p on Jul 3, 2013 18:54:45 GMT 12
why not get the ecus chucked in a box at start of meeting then at random hand them out? maybe have a falcon box and a holden box?
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srr
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by srr on Jul 4, 2013 13:15:23 GMT 12
thanks wingnut just needed to ask the questions. every body seams to be focused more on the whos than the hows. I do like peteg,s idea that would be interesting. but if snz check everything properly is there a need? ( sorry about lack of punctuation in last post didn't have the eyes on.)
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Post by chewy69a on Jul 4, 2013 14:07:52 GMT 12
Some pretty misguided opinions here...
Handing computers out at the start of a meeting would blow engines left right and centre, each ecu is tuned on a dyno to suit each car / engine and then the programme is saved to the ecu. if you started swapping the ecu's between vehicles then cars would run rich and make no power or lean out until the die.
I don't know why we would only have one approved ecu, the one they have approved functions exactly the same as a link, motec etc etc in the sense it can be INFINITELY adjusted and tuned. The proposed rules would have made factory ford ecu's illegal which is crazy considering the suggested snz control ecu is clearly a much greater advantage.
I would have fitted injection for this season coming if it had passed despite my original reservations about the matter as it is a clear advantage over a carburettor and heres why:
Currently all air AND fuel passes through our carby and restrictor plates.
The proposed fuel injection rule change read that ONLY AIR would pass through the restrictor plate (as fuel would obviously come from the injectors directly into the intake port)
This is a clear advantage as fuel takes up space and slows down airflow therefore injected engines should have to run a smaller restrictor plate. How all who knows 41mm?
Check out rule books for other classes both here and abroad where they have to run restrictors (eg f2 midgets) which clearly state all air AND fuel must pass through said restrictor plates.
Food for thought hopefully as no doubt injection will come in at some stage.
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Post by scotty 911w on Jul 9, 2013 7:36:36 GMT 12
heres some food for thought
fuel lines;$200-300 + fittings
efi pump;$150(vl commy or early bmw second hand even cheaper)
smartlock bypass(ford ecu)$150
still alot cheaper than 90% stockcar engines out there
and on the ecu debate,lets say you decide to remap/chip your ecu
chip $200
chip reader$150
band new laptop$1000
STILL cheaper than a lot of engines
and if your manifold gets smashed off the engine will stop thus stopping pump,as ecu controls pump function.
i did my first full season with a wrecker efi engine and managed pretty well,efi EFI is a no brainer.
scotty
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Post by nogrip-31gm on Jul 9, 2013 8:08:15 GMT 12
you cant say its tsill cheaper than most engines out there...its not the engine your changing, only the intake system.
so you can only compare it to the cost of the intake,carb etc
so, no, its not cheaper, but it is safer
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srr
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by srr on Jul 10, 2013 22:01:44 GMT 12
how is it safer if you don't mind me asking.
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Post by tank11 on Jul 11, 2013 8:30:17 GMT 12
how is it safer if you don't mind me asking. 1st one is, in the case of a roll over, which being we are talking stocks here is fairly pertinent, no fuel bowl or carb to leak fuel from. |
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Post by craig on Jul 15, 2013 21:17:52 GMT 12
how is it safer if you don't mind me asking. 1st one is, in the case of a roll over, which being we are talking stocks here is fairly pertinent, no fuel bowl or carb to leak fuel from. Exactly - would rather have an injected engine than carb'd engine in the event of a roll over. EFI lines are rated much higher & the system is 'sealed' & any fuel unused is returned to the tank. with a carb'd engine the fuel could potentially be pumped out the carb etc & spill. There was the same knee jerk reaction from within both streetstock & production classes when injection was mooted & then introduced. Many were worried that injected cars would blow them away & ruin their carb'd cars hierarchy. Once introduced it was amazing how many old school drivers went injection. Much more reliable, hassle free & yes, a little power improvement but overall easy to maintain trouble-free |
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Post by Lucas Injection (72w) on Feb 13, 2014 18:37:45 GMT 12
Injections way of atomising fuel means that different runner lengths can be used. on some engines this widens the torque curve but doesn't always increase peak torque, making the motor more tractable or allowing the increasing of the valve open period slightly.
Another advantage of some injection systems over carbys is that they can run 0 hg vaccum (ie no restriction in manifold). this was a feature of the lucas system as fitted to formula 5000's, early 80's formula one cars and triumph saloons/tr6. More recently airflow is being measured by audio frequency sensors in the manifold, doing away with the restriction of the typical injection airflow meter sprung flap.
Beyond improving the already accuracy of mixture setting (taking into account atmospheric temp and humidity, engine and fuel temperature etc) one injection system or another cannot simply unleash more power with the injection of cash. It could perhaps offer a slight benefit in the already precise metering of fuel but gains would only be <1% over another well dialled in system.
Hopefully the timely introduction of injection will only improve the sport
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