Fuel Injection in Stockcars (Read 10,031 times)

[motomike]

End of the day fuel injection is just a more efficient way of metering fuel. The less hassle you have of getting out on the track the better.

[interestedbystander]

are there any reports now that the season is done Re injection?

[The Observer]

I think we had some fast cars and results for the top guys running injection

2nz and the other titles he picked up an example

Seems to be a lot of carbs up for sale at the moment

Heard the changeover cost is 3-5k if your already running them

[interestedbystander]

Jun 6, 2023 15:36:01 GMT 12 The Observer said:

I think we had some fast cars and results for the top guys running injection

2nz and the other titles he picked up an example

Seems to be a lot of carbs up for sale at the moment

Heard the changeover cost is 3-5k if your already running them

Did we witness any "top of the line" injections V "top of the line" Carby duels in the last season?  

[dandittmer]

Jun 6, 2023 15:36:01 GMT 12 The Observer said:

I think we had some fast cars and results for the top guys running injection

2nz and the other titles he picked up an example

Seems to be a lot of carbs up for sale at the moment

Heard the changeover cost is 3-5k if your already running them

I’m on the hunt for a hi rise for falcon if u come across any thanks

[interestedbystander]

Isnt the curly manifold doing the same job as a hi rise, its about having length to straighten out the airflow so less disturbance and quicker thru the system, So a hi rise on a curly is a Twin hi rise??

[The Observer]

Interesting comments about the curly manifold.

Lots of battles I think the pace is probably pretty even between both the argument seems generally about torque off the corner and smoother delivery

Seems that fancy falcons are moving away from the curly and going towards an earlier model injected manifold.

Be interesting to see what way the Holden’s go

I guess for a new engine build it makes sense to use the exsisting manifold as the cost of the computer etc is probably close to a high rise

The east starting and efficient fuel use are probably pretty compelling

[mudman]

It’s become apparently that the intake manifold that goes best for the holden v6 is a front wheel drive Pontiac manifold as per the 2nz car.
I suspect seeing all the competitors making the change this off season we will see efi take a stranglehold of the top end. Dyno figures are showing 25-30% power gains and as the tuners get a handle on it, it’s all up from there.

[The Observer]

Interesting comment.
If this was the case there would be more high rise carbs for sale at the moment?
Seen a few from falcons but not from Holden’s …
To be fair not sure how many EFI Holden’s actually out there, given it’s a trail that’s able to be reviewed by the board if unexpected performance gains it would be Interesting to see a report from the board at snz on their thoughts after a season under their belts

[mudman]

Let’s not forget that the majority of stockcar drivers are budget racers so throwing away a $3k carb set up for an injected set up is often a budget thing. It’s not as simple as unbolt one and bolt on the other for most of us chassis needs to be modified, new computer, fuel pump, fuel tank modifications, fuel lines, dyno time, throttle linkage, air cleaner and ducting and there’s bound to be things I have missed
Whoever sold us on it being a cheaper alternative to carbs is a brilliant salesman.
Snz sadly aren’t interested in parity. My engine builder has presented his dyno figures using the same long block only swapping carb to efi and snz didn’t want to know about it. And only a few weeks later the superstock tyre was unleashed on the stockcar class.
If snz were serious about having parity between carbs and efi they would’ve made a restrictor plate change this off season. It was said they reserve the right to make restrictor plate changes as they feel fit to the efi cars and they haven’t. And the stockcar class is full of serious competitors who refuse to be left behind so are in full swing making the changes needed to stay competitive.

[mrdamage]

^ Its not about converting your setup - its no different to you running a stock Holley & flat manifold vs running a Highrise manifold and Highrise carb? The choice is entirely yours.

A highrise manifold + highrise carb is in the region of $3500-4000 depending on what engine builder you're using. For a fraction of that cost you can have the EFI manifold, new fuel pump & injectors as well as the restrictor plate. You could just about have it with the ECU also for that cost..

20/30% power increase is a dream, perhaps thats on a engine dyno on a motor that wasn't tuned properly to start with. Without back to back dyno testing on one setup to another then all these figures spouted are worthless.

At those ratings you'd be pulling over 300hp which I highly doubt is the case. Other than keyboard warriors I think you'll struggle to find any decent dyno operator suggesting those sorts of numbers over a properly tuned highrise carb. Kindly I'd suggest you find a better builder if they didnt want to know about it, they must have their head in the sand!!

The Parity dispute is null and void - you dont have the same engine/chassis/driver/setup combo. I would argue for instance Tennant was always going to be quick with that setup even with a Carb on his home track, what it has done is give him smoother delivery & reliability.

Falcon's for the most part don't need any modifications to the chassis, Commodores entirely dependent on your chassis rails height, however I've seen some that have simply reversed the factory manifold to point inward.

Dont forget you could run stock computer and injectors. You don't have to do Brand new everything.

I can tell you to convert my car only cost $750 all up by the time I'd sold the old carb & manifold - and I didn't do the wiring myself.
For me it was unbolt manifold, have adapter for restrictor plate made, new return fuel line & pump, regulator and map sensor. So it really is that simple. My fuel lines were already rated appropriately as was the fuel tank with its return line fittings already in the tank.

[mudman]

If, as you say, there is absolutely no advantage to running efi why would people like Scott Tennant, Kyle Rowe, Tyler walker, Ethan levien make the change in existing cars? They already had top of the line carb set ups?
Seems like a lot of hassle on ultra reliable cars for zero gain?

[mrdamage]

Try reading before commenting. I didn't say absolutely no advantage.

Why don't you ask them yourself seeing as you seem to know everything? I've already pointed out it makes things smoother, runs leaner, lower bonnet heights and runs/idles smoother, also doesn't have a inlet tract full of fuel. It enables the car to run cooler and use less fuel as a result..

But hey read into it what you want, Im just trying to give a balanced insight having run both, to which you clearly are incapable of understanding instead of bagging everyone else and SNZ..

Perhaps next time you're fired into the wall or come to a stop on the red, and they fire their cars right on up, whilst you're sitting struggling to keep it running or get it started again when hot you might grasp the benefits..

[mudman]

Good news! I have spoken to some of the aforementioned drivers. Not only do I regularly race with them but have the same engine builder as a named driver in that list. Their answer to me for going efi was ‘power gains’.
I may not be the most educated stockcar driver but don’t think I have looked at this from a place of ignorance as I have long been a supporter of opening up the rules to allow efi and/or multi valve engines. I just believe it needs to be handled in a way that doesn’t render a carb and simple computer obsolete and have zero faith in snz to monitor these changes and adjust accordingly.