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Post by youngone on Jun 24, 2015 21:59:28 GMT 12
Is it time for the Rotorua rebels to remove the Confederate flag from their team cars?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:09:21 GMT 12
Is it time for the Rotorua rebels to remove the Confedorate flag from their team cars? Short answer - No. alot of people are claiming "its racist" etc, and its just not - the flag the rebels are using is NOT the real confederate flag which was originally this =  the flag the rebels fly =  is the "battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia" it is incorporated into all other confederate flags but it is not actually a confederate flag. The actual meaning of the flag is that the southern states {a star for each state} decided not to follow the northern lot or accept thier leadership and thus the civil war started.. After the northern states attacked following their succesion from the united states. the blue "X" the stars shine through is an indication that they are no longer part of north americas governance. the read is to indicate honor and readiness to do whats necessary in battle. Its also interesting to note that the southern armies were the first to abolish slavery - northern america waited until after the war while the south set free slaves before and during. at the end of the civil war many "colured" people where part of the southern armies and families by choice. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:12:13 GMT 12
there are other interpretations of the red but the core of the flag is usually the same if you read ALL sources instead of relying on newspapers and media sources..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 0:25:55 GMT 12
Blimmin heck, hell must have frozen over cause I agree with @rhodesta
It would be a sad day if anyone got rid of the Confederate Battle Flag because of the actions of this idiot in SC. I really hope the fathers of that state don't buckle to the pressure and stop flying it.
But closer to home, IMHO Rotorua should absolutely keep flying it. The same flag can have two diff meanings for example the swastika is widely used and welcome in the in the Indian culture but vilified thru Europe.
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Post by tiroto on Jun 25, 2015 6:18:05 GMT 12
I'm sure i raised this issue couple of years ago here on Macgors and it's won't go away!  Love the Rebels and the Rascals but you won't get me waving a confederate flag. My choice for personal reasons. A flag is a symbol that gives a deeper meaning or a relationship derived from historical significance. When I see the confederate flag however I'm unable to separate the symbolism of speedway resilience and courage of those who have driven for the Rebels and Rascals from white supremacy and the connotations of racism derived from America. That's my issue to deal with but ultimately no matter how you interpret the confederate flag it will always be a symbol that divides rather than unites. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 7:08:47 GMT 12
Blimmin heck, hell must have frozen over cause I agree with @rhodesta It would be a sad day if anyone got rid of the Confederate Battle Flag because of the actions of this idiot in SC. I really hope the fathers of that state don't buckle to the pressure and stop flying it. But closer to home, IMHO Rotorua should absolutely keep flying it. The same flag can have two diff meanings for example the swastika is widely used and welcome in the in the Indian culture but vilified thru Europe. Well cut it out!! Its darn cold without that bloody furnace under us going!  on a side note - the original swastika has been around for over 12,000 years and has a variety of peaceful meanings behind it... the reversed swastika as used by hitlers regime was the only version that had a "intentionally evil" meaning. If that makes sense. The whole racist argument is round things in my opinion anyway - its a bit of coloured fabric and eventually someones going to be offended by that even if its light blue with a rainbow on it. besides - if its racist then so is the word "n i g g e r" but that cant be right since its only racist when WHITE PEOPLE say it and the rest of the time its fine... |
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Post by sonjahickey on Jun 25, 2015 7:46:33 GMT 12
The topic did come up at Monday's committee meeting and l can say there is absolutely no intention at this stage to make any radical changes.
It has raised some discussion in the Hickey household as to when the Rebels started using the Confederate flag and whether it was in fact introduced later or part of the original naming of the team. Stan can't remember it being used early on but that's not to say it wasn't. May be some of you on this forum might have early pics of the Teams Champs or similar with or without the flag.
Sonja h
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Post by boner87 on Jun 25, 2015 8:59:24 GMT 12
Seriously have we not got better things to be worried about than a flag on some cars. No one here has ever had a problem or not voiced it anyway. So if it's not broke leave it alone
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Post by BarryB on Jun 25, 2015 9:18:41 GMT 12
I'm sure i raised this issue couple of years ago here on Macgors and it's won't go away! Love the Rebels and the Rascals but you won't get me waving a confederate flag. My choice for personal reasons. A flag is a symbol that gives a deeper meaning or a relationship derived from historical significance. When I see the confederate flag however I'm unable to separate the symbolism of speedway resilience and courage of those who have driven for the Rebels and Rascals from white supremacy and the connotations of racism derived from America. That's my issue to deal with but ultimately no matter how you interpret the confederate flag it will always be a symbol that divides rather than unites. You're right about it being personal choice tiroto, and you've made yours and people have to respect that. I do sometimes feel that we can be guilty over over-thinking things however, when we should just be getting on and enjoying life. That is sometimes easier said than done however. I guess because what happened in the American South had no immediate effect on my family (and I've never studied it) I personally see that particular flag as more associated with the Rotorua Rebels than with where it originated. Other flags are different however, and as my parents lived in England during WW2 (and dad and many uncles etc fought in the war) there are certain other flags I'd hate to see waved at speedway tracks myself. We just need to make sure one or two don't spoil things for the majority, but it's a world where that happens, a LOT. Barry B |
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Post by midway on Jun 25, 2015 9:39:40 GMT 12
We Got the Maori Flag ,stole the idea from you the Pakeha ,after the battles ,wait till the teams event, i know this chap trying to put some beer crate motors together ,so once again us bro,s can have a battle with the Poms ... |
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Post by brendanlucas on Jun 25, 2015 10:10:59 GMT 12
We Got the Maori Flag ,stole the idea from you the Pakeha ,after the battles ,wait till the teams event, i know this chap trying to put some beer crate motors together ,so once again us bro,s can have a battle with the Poms ... Why…, just look at that chap geeves…, his English is just atwoshiss, and just look at the way he’s slouching… Seriously, yes, very controversial. The rebel flag has come to represent among other things racial hatred. The race relations conciliator, better known in speedway as the race controller or SNZ referee, perhaps could make the ruling. If it were replaced, perhaps you could use this  Or this  But not this  Nor this  Doesn’t matter anyway, coz this is the flag you will see on the podium this year  which is of course the new logo for the Hawkeyes. |
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Post by knownotmuch on Jun 25, 2015 13:35:45 GMT 12
Personally I think that the more controversial the flag is, then the more it is suited to the Rotorua team. They are called the "Rebels" aren't they?
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Post by gregobro on Jun 25, 2015 14:39:25 GMT 12
I agree with Tiroto, for a city that is NZ's Maori Capital of culture and heritage its always been a bit odd that the team adopted the confederate flag. Keep the name Rotorua Rebels but ditch the flag. No matter what it represented in the past, its got a pretty tainted image now and it will only get worse. Perfect opportunity to engage the good folks of Rotorua with a "design our new branding" competition, get some positive free promo out of this... or just keep it like it is, ultimately its up to the club and drivers to make this call.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 15:15:15 GMT 12
I agree with Tiroto, for a city that is NZ's Maori Capital of culture and heritage its always been a bit odd that the team adopted the confederate flag. Keep the name Rotorua Rebels but ditch the flag. No matter what it represented in the past, its got a pretty tainted image now and it will only get worse. Perfect opportunity to engage the good folks of Rotorua with a "design our new branding" competition, get some positive free promo out of this... or just keep it like it is, ultimately its up to the club and drivers to make this call. Nobody really took any notice of these sort of things in the past , but as time goes by racial matters are being made more and more a sensitive issue . Now that this has been brought to peoples attention there may be a bit of resentment to the Rebels Flag . If it does have a racist tone to it , im pretty sure I wouldn't want it attached to my car ... It may be a team slogan , but at the end of the day a Confederate Flag is a Confederate Flag and no different to a Swaztika .. |
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Post by boner87 on Jun 25, 2015 15:33:52 GMT 12
Just out of curiosity but apart from it becoming a problem in America, has an actual problem or complaint been laid about the flag the rebels has used for so long??
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 19:54:36 GMT 12
So we should stop watching Dukes of Hazzard because the General Lee has a Con flag on its roof? What a load of poohs..
Oh and another thing, why does NZ use a silver fern? Im yet to find one!!!!
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Post by brendanlucas on Jun 25, 2015 20:07:03 GMT 12
Oh and another thing, why does NZ use a silver fern? Im yet to find one!!!! I'm yet to find a kiwi also, unless you go into McDonalds of course & ask for a Kiwi burger.... Different places have different meanings for things. eg.., road rage in Sanson is quite different to road rage in Auckland, & different again in downtown Bagdad. That doesn't stop the Rebel flag from being very unfashionable though, awkward. |
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Post by Pirate Racing NZ on Jun 25, 2015 20:12:50 GMT 12
The civil war was over the South separating from the north as the taxes on produce grown in the south went to the north. Slavery did not enter it. Abraham Lincoln had black slaves and he was a northern leader! As mentioned earlier, slavery was stopped by the rebel southerners before the Yankees. People should pick up a book and learn to read. Keep the flag and ditch the PM. Actually, if you were after a racist symbol used in America to avoid, it would have to be white sheets and flour sacks. From what I read, the kkk did not use the rebel flag, just sheets and flaming torches. Now we all know who over the years of history used the white flag, the French.
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Post by midway on Jun 25, 2015 20:46:10 GMT 12
The Motorscooter bro,s in Kaikohe have Rebels on there leather jackets and race around the place with confederates flag s waving in the breeze ,but knowing that Rotorua users the same flag and name ,you can only feel sorry for the club as it was in true spirit of the sport we all enjoy and have done for many happy years incidents like this start to unfold . Continue on like you have before i believe those in this sport would rather you do so ,some folks havent seen a Kiwi ,or a silver fern but live in a land of good living .. |
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Post by beachboy on Jun 25, 2015 21:04:03 GMT 12
Personally I think that the more controversial the flag is, then the more it is suited to the Rotorua team. They are called the "Rebels" aren't they? and I always thought the team name and the flag they used were just a coincidence  |
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