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Post by tank11 on Mar 2, 2024 22:09:45 GMT 12
Talk about being stuck in the mud! The second 4 may have just had ONE bad race? So they are not in contention, so go home! Would that make YOU happy? Why would they race the second night, if not for a chance to be top 4? They know they can't win the event, though. More sense talking to a brick! Offering debate and others thoughts about the forrmat - there's always one who finds it necessary to be abusive - you turkey tank 11! Point out where you offered debate! Just once! You said your thoughts and no more. No abuse, just stated a fact "more sense talking to a brick". |
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Post by midway on Mar 2, 2024 22:23:03 GMT 12
Thank goodness we have a winner to the satisfaction of those who enjoyed the racing to night ..
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Post by BarryB on Mar 2, 2024 22:24:32 GMT 12
I look forward to Percy's review from trackside. Via the stream it looked a fairly slick event, although two Ministocks as a filler, more than once, was a little puzzling. Cheap to run though I'm imagining.
But the weirdest scheduling of all was having the $1,000 Stockcar Dash for Cash immediately after Stockcar Teams final however. Two grids saved for the grand final winners, and two for the grand final losers. They got none. What was planned to be a 22 car field drew 12 starters and 10 empty grids. The idea of the race was solid (grids in reverse order of what the teams finished the weekend, two cars per team), but its place in the schedule was completely void of logic. Even putting the two Ministocks out again might have helped get a couple more cars on track. Or not. Was all done by 10pm though, so that was well done. Big congrats to the Rotorua Rascals.
As for the stream itself, there was some good stuff but the usual habit of cutting away just before something happened as per their usual form, switching to 3 different cameras within about 2 seconds on occasion, and never really following the part of the race that was important, especially over the last couple of laps of each race tonight. I also got to see almost every blade of grass on Waikaraka Park's infield at some point, not to mention the back side of several infield worker's heads at varying times. Totally stable stream, and good sound throughout.
Barry B
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Post by percy on Mar 2, 2024 22:47:33 GMT 12
Back home from the track and that was easily my favourite night of the year thus far. Well done to the team at Waikaraka Park. They started on time, kept the show moving throughout and produced two nights of great racing that both finished at a good hour. These short, sharp, punchy shows are absolutely the way to go in our sport and the Waikaraka team delivered. Having 3 tow trucks and a beefed up crash crew showed they had thought about the logistics of the meeting and delivered accordingly.
Both semi-finals were epic, keeping all four cars on track crucial to winning the races. Baypark gave it plenty against the Alleycats and produced a physical race. The Pumas vs Alleycats 5th & 6th race was awesome (even for an Alleycats fan) and the Young Guns vs Stormers erupted in the second half. Final was perhaps a touch one-sided but finals are rarely classics. Have to give it to Rotorua and wonder how 5r couldn't get into a team until 735r pulled out. Was one of the stars of the weekend.
The supports played their part. Saloons got a second line going through the middle and the Stockcar Consolations were great thanks to the antics of 16h and 24h. As Barry has pointed out, the final could have been run after the 3rd vs 4th race with a break before the all-in to maximise the field. As it was the cameras probably didn't capture all the action as despite only a dozen or so cars being on track the race erupted! One of the best stockcar races you'll ever see to put the proverbial icing on the cake.
I'm not a fan of how they do 3rd-6th during teams champs and nothing tonight changed my mind. Stratford won 1 race all weekend and came 4th, Palmerston North won 3 races and came 5th. Doesn't make much sense to me.
A fantastic night of speedway.
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Post by nakifans on Mar 3, 2024 7:43:45 GMT 12
That's a weird way to sort minor placings, so tough on Pumas & darn lucky for the Stormers! Even the ENZED Superstock Teams is fairer than this. Pumas lose the toss of a coin to finish 4th in qualifying and end up in a race for 6th! Oh, here we go every time there's this draw! Winners of the semis go to the final The highest losing semi goes to 3v4 Highest winning bottom 4 The lowest losing semi goes 5v6 lowest winning bottom 4 7v8 is bottom 4 losing semis They all know this going into the racing. Get over it. Can someone confirm if this has always been the Teams format or has the tier 1/2 qualifiers vs each other finals night been a tweak to system. This time worked in Taranaki's favor , qualified 8 , finished 4th. P/N qualified 4th finished  |
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Post by tank11 on Mar 3, 2024 7:46:40 GMT 12
Oh, here we go every time there's this draw! Winners of the semis go to the final The highest losing semi goes to 3v4 Highest winning bottom 4 The lowest losing semi goes 5v6 lowest winning bottom 4 7v8 is bottom 4 losing semis They all know this going into the racing. Get over it. Can someone confirm if this has always been the Teams format or has the tier 1/2 qualifiers vs each other finals night been a tweak to system. This time worked in Taranaki's favor , qualified 8 , finished 4th. P/N qualified 4th finished Totally depends on numbers of entrants, but it is one that occurs mostly |
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Post by turnright on Mar 3, 2024 8:15:11 GMT 12
I look forward to Percy's review from trackside. Via the stream it looked a fairly slick event, although two Ministocks as a filler, more than once, was a little puzzling. Cheap to run though I'm imagining. But the weirdest scheduling of all was having the $1,000 Stockcar Dash for Cash immediately after Stockcar Teams final however. Two grids saved for the grand final winners, and two for the grand final losers. They got none. What was planned to be a 22 car field drew 12 starters and 10 empty grids. The idea of the race was solid (grids in reverse order of what the teams finished the weekend, two cars per team), but its place in the schedule was completely void of logic. Even putting the two Ministocks out again might have helped get a couple more cars on track. Or not. Was all done by 10pm though, so that was well done. Big congrats to the Rotorua Rascals. As for the stream itself, there was some good stuff but the usual habit of cutting away just before something happened as per their usual form, switching to 3 different cameras within about 2 seconds on occasion, and never really following the part of the race that was important, especially over the last couple of laps of each race tonight. I also got to see almost every blade of grass on Waikaraka Park's infield at some point, not to mention the back side of several infield worker's heads at varying times. Totally stable stream, and good sound throughout. Barry B Was 2 v cars in that final race, no r cars though, 287v and 364v |
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Post by Ramjam on Mar 3, 2024 11:02:43 GMT 12
I'm kinda with wildcatfan on this stupid format.
What was so wrong with the plate competition for their 2?
5th v 8th
6th v 7th
2 winners race for the plate final.
I can't remember what year it was but when I was involved at welly, we introduced that plate race, which Auckland won maybe the first or second of, and went on to become quite a good team from memory. Surly the way the human psyche works, it's better to say we won/came second in the plate competition than saying we came 5th/6th. Certainly is more marketable.
for mine the top 4 after qualifying should be the top 4 in the championship, anything else is just a blimmin nonsense.
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Post by The other guy on Mar 3, 2024 11:29:04 GMT 12
Sorry but if P/N finish 4th on the 1st night and then cannot beat the 2nd tier team on finals night then they deserve to finish where they did overall.
Stormers did the complete opposite and good on them.
It is a 2 night meeting not just one.
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Post by tank11 on Mar 3, 2024 12:02:28 GMT 12
I'm kinda with wildcatfan on this stupid format. What was so wrong with the plate competition for their 2? 5th v 8th 6th v 7th 2 winners race for the plate final. I can't remember what year it was but when I was involved at welly, we introduced that plate race, which Auckland won maybe the first or second of, and went on to become quite a good team from memory. Surly the way the human psyche works, it's better to say we won/came second in the plate competition than saying we came 5th/6th. Certainly is more marketable. for mine the top 4 after qualifying should be the top 4 in the championship, anything else is just a blimmin nonsense. Nothing wrong with the "plate" concept if it was Ministox in Paradise. Most teams in the second tier 4 will put 110% in, to have the chance of getting 3rd. Or do we wreck our cars for a "plate" no one will hear about after tonight! |
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Post by twincarb on Mar 3, 2024 12:29:56 GMT 12
Can someone explain team tactics to me ? why did all four cars stay on the start untill the first 4 cars did a lap and passed them ?
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Post by percy on Mar 3, 2024 12:37:11 GMT 12
I'm kinda with wildcatfan on this stupid format. What was so wrong with the plate competition for their 2? 5th v 8th 6th v 7th 2 winners race for the plate final. I can't remember what year it was but when I was involved at welly, we introduced that plate race, which Auckland won maybe the first or second of, and went on to become quite a good team from memory. Surly the way the human psyche works, it's better to say we won/came second in the plate competition than saying we came 5th/6th. Certainly is more marketable. for mine the top 4 after qualifying should be the top 4 in the championship, anything else is just a blimmin nonsense. Nothing wrong with the "plate" concept if it was Ministox in Paradise. Most teams in the second tier 4 will put 110% in, to have the chance of getting 3rd. Or do we wreck our cars for a "plate" no one will hear about after tonight! Your answer is the logical answer but by the same token there is no reason to go out there for the 5th vs 6th or 3rd vs 4th races! Yet my observation is these races are consistently some of the best. We heard from the semi-final teams beforehand and not one of them was concerned about scoring points in a losing effort to try and make the 3rd vs 4th playoff which makes the whole thing artificial. My preferred solution is still the same solution I've been proposing for the last couple of years. Both semi-final losers should face the second tier winners with the winners of that matchup being seeded in next years title (alongside both finalists). Either forget about determining which team comes third or have it based on the highest scoring team (night one points) if we really need to have a third placed team. Second solution is simply to have the semi-final losers face off for 3rd and 4th plus race offs for 5th & 6th, 7th & 8th, 9th & 10th etc with those drivers then joining the consolation field. |
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Post by tiroto on Mar 3, 2024 12:58:13 GMT 12
Realistically the Rascals weren’t favourites to win. On paper, arguably, my top teams in order: • Pumas • Alleycats • Vulcans • Crushers (who didn’t attend) • Young Guns • Stormers • KK Crusaders • Then the Rascals and then the other teams. So how did a team with no top 10 drivers or stars, limited form (they lost two races to Huntly at MIP recently) and lost their best driver in Keegan Orr one week before the champs, win? The Rascals are probably still pinching themselves, as their Manager said afterwards: “I’m lost for words” and he meant that. Based on the Rascals win, I come with all humility and respect to all drivers from all teams when I say, having a star driver or two on a team certainly improves a team's chances of winning but it appears to be not necessarily a requirement. What shows is a team with a balanced and cohesive group of drivers who work well together and complement each other's strengths can also achieve success. In team sports for example rugby, it's often the case that a team's success depends on the contributions of multiple players, rather than just one star player. While a talented individual player can make a big impact on a game, they still need their teammates to perform well and support them in order to win. Additionally, a star driver is not always enough to guarantee a win. A team needs to have a strong overall strategy, good financial support, an excellent back up support team and solid management and coaching to succeed. Add to that, things need to go your way. Lamp stopped 60 metres from the chequered flag. If Gizzy had won that race, Rascals were gone. Palmy hitting own driver causing him to roll in the beginning of the semi final race, 4 v 3 and the Rascals won. Perhaps that could be considered good planning by the Rascals with the outside stockcars on the brakes for nearly a full lap creating a bottleneck of cars leading to the Palmy car hitting one of their own and taking him out.  Who knows? What it shows is success can come from building a star team, not a team of individual star players. I don’t know the culture of the Rascals team but it appears the team has good leadership and a commitment to each other. The challenge for the Rascals is to build on this success and plan how to keep the event at the Valley of Paradise. I think of the Gladiator team who won two years in a row, the Stormers team from 17 – 18 & 18 – 19, Pumas 3 years in a row and of course the greatest stockcar team, the Young Guns who won 02 – 03 to 03 – 04 then 05 – 06 to 09 – 10. All those teams had great individual drivers who collective worked well together and as a result they were able to continue winning. All the best Rascals and look forward to seeing you race next season at the Valley of Paradise! |
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Post by bigforce on Mar 3, 2024 13:15:11 GMT 12
Sorry but if P/N finish 4th on the 1st night and then cannot beat the 2nd tier team on finals night then they deserve to finish where they did overall. Stormers did the complete opposite and good on them. It is a 2 night meeting not just one. What second tier team did they lose to? |
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Post by BarryB on Mar 3, 2024 13:44:52 GMT 12
Realistically the Rascals weren’t favourites to win. On paper, arguably, my top teams in order: • Pumas • Alleycats • Vulcans • Crushers (who didn’t attend) • Young Guns • Stormers • KK Crusaders • Then the Rascals and then the other teams. So how did a team with no top 10 drivers or stars, limited form (they lost two races to Huntly at MIP recently) and lost their best driver in Keegan Orr one week before the champs win? The Rascals are probably still pinching themselves, as their Manager said afterwards: “I’m lost for words” and he meant that. Based on the Rascals win, I come with all humility and respect to all drivers from all teams when I say, having a star driver or two on a team certainly improves a team's chances of winning but it appears to be not necessarily a requirement. What shows is a team with a balanced and cohesive group of drivers who work well together and complement each other's strengths can also achieve success. In team sports for example rugby, it's often the case that a team's success depends on the contributions of multiple players, rather than just one star player. While a talented individual player can make a big impact on a game, they still need their teammates to perform well and support them in order to win. Additionally, a star driver is not always enough to guarantee a win. A team needs to have a strong overall strategy, good financial support, an excellent back up support team and solid management and coaching to succeed. Add to that, there needs to things go your way. Lamp stopped 60 metres from the chequered flag. If Gizzy had won that race, Rascals were gone. Palmy hitting own driver causing him to roll in the beginning of the semi final race, 4 v 3 and the Rascals won. Perhaps that could be considered good planning by the Rascals with the outside stockcars on the brakes for nearly a full lap creating a bottleneck of cars leading to the Palmy car hitting one of their own and taking him out. Who knows? What it shows is success can come from building a star team, not a team of individual star players. I don’t know the culture of the Rascals team but it appears the team has good leadership and a commitment to each other. The challenge for the Rascals is to build on this success and plan how to keep the event at the Valley of Paradise. I think of the Gladiator team who won two years in a row, the Stormers team from 17 – 18 & 18 – 19, Pumas 3 years in a row and of course the greatest stockcar team, the Young Guns who won 02 – 03 to 03 – 04 then 05 – 06 to 09 – 10. All those teams had great individual drivers who collective worked well together and as a result they were able to continue winning. All the best Rascals and look forward to seeing you race next season at the Valley of Paradise! A star team will always beat a team of stars. Barry B |
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Post by BarryB on Mar 3, 2024 13:50:25 GMT 12
Nothing wrong with the "plate" concept if it was Ministox in Paradise. Most teams in the second tier 4 will put 110% in, to have the chance of getting 3rd. Or do we wreck our cars for a "plate" no one will hear about after tonight! My preferred solution is still the same solution I've been proposing for the last couple of years. Both semi-final losers should face the second tier winners with the winners of that matchup being seeded in next years title (alongside both finalists). Am l missing something, or would that require those teams having three races over the course of the night to end up with one team in 3rd place? The two semi-finals, then the two losers vs the second tier winners, then a race between the winners of that second race? Or are you suggesting both winners of the second race get seeded? Barry B |
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Post by BarryB on Mar 3, 2024 13:52:24 GMT 12
I'm not a fan of how they do 3rd-6th during teams champs and nothing tonight changed my mind. Stratford won 1 race all weekend and came 4th, Palmerston North won 3 races and came 5th. Doesn't make much sense to me.. When you put it that way........ Barry B |
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Post by percy on Mar 3, 2024 15:57:02 GMT 12
My preferred solution is still the same solution I've been proposing for the last couple of years. Both semi-final losers should face the second tier winners with the winners of that matchup being seeded in next years title (alongside both finalists). Am l missing something, or would that require those teams having three races over the course of the night to end up with one team in 3rd place? The two semi-finals, then the two losers vs the second tier winners, then a race between the winners of that second race? Or are you suggesting both winners of the second race get seeded? Barry B Suggesting both winners get seeded - four seeds |
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Post by tank11 on Mar 3, 2024 16:34:05 GMT 12
Am l missing something, or would that require those teams having three races over the course of the night to end up with one team in 3rd place? The two semi-finals, then the two losers vs the second tier winners, then a race between the winners of that second race? Or are you suggesting both winners of the second race get seeded? Barry B Suggesting both winners get seeded - four seeds Ummm, they are seeded, 1,2,3+4 This is the way they have done it, so next year 3+4 are known. Otherwise we have 2 x3rd, which some martial arts competitions do, but they do have a way of seeding them during the following year if both combatants are at the same event. This wouldn't work with a pool of 10 - 14 teams racing like this, unless one didn't turn up. |
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Post by petrolfumes on Mar 3, 2024 20:47:27 GMT 12
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Who knows? 
