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Post by 98wsaloon on Nov 4, 2009 18:51:24 GMT 12
saloon tyre rule.max overside wall width of 19.5" . rule..(t11.2.25)what exactly does this mean? measured from where to where?
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Post by chris13w on Nov 4, 2009 21:23:26 GMT 12
Haven't spotted that one before Tony - used to just say - Max rim width 14", max tread width 14"  So guess its measured right the way across the bulge of the side wall - with a straight edge across the mounted and inflated tyre when its on its side and then the distance to the floor?? Wonder why we need that?? And the max 100" tyre circumference rule is the dumbest thing ever - how many half worn 104" tyres get thrown away by all the premium classes as there is no one who will use them secondhand??! Changing THAT rule would save a lot of money... |
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Post by nzf2stocks. on Nov 4, 2009 21:55:02 GMT 12
But would take Saloons one step closer to Super Saloons, and there arn't that many steps left.
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Post by chris13w on Nov 4, 2009 22:27:37 GMT 12
Not true at all - simply saves money on secondhand tyres.
Last time I checked - 406 engines, alloy heads, fuel injection, Bert gearboxes, and new tyres all the time still cost quite a bit of money...
So some will argue saloons cost the same - I would argue that there are still plenty of saloons that DON'T cost the same as a top Super Saloon....
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Post by gjd on Nov 5, 2009 7:52:23 GMT 12
have to agree with you chris13w.most of us could race on hand me downs,but i would hate to suggest a change to the rules
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Nov 5, 2009 8:19:24 GMT 12
have to agree with you chris13w.most of us could race on hand me downs,but i would hate to suggest a change to the rules  Some big budget flag chasers would object. The bigger the footprint the better traction (slick track) and peasants using larger 2nd hand tyres might erode their advantage. Big budget racers can import new wider tread pattern tyres suitable for 14" rims. |
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Post by gjd on Nov 5, 2009 8:29:56 GMT 12
but atleast it helps keep the budget racers racing and theres an outlet for the slightly used 104 tyres
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Nov 5, 2009 8:34:55 GMT 12
but atleast it helps keep the budget racers racing and theres an outlet for the slightly used 104 tyres Totally agree. sadly the gap in the saloon class budgets is increasing even more significantly this season. |
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Post by gjd on Nov 5, 2009 10:25:42 GMT 12
so why (ha ha ha as if i dont know the answer) dont we let the saloons have used 104s etc.keep fields up,spectators interest up,lets change the rule today!!a mate has got 5 x 104s you can have now.
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Post by chris13w on Nov 5, 2009 17:19:20 GMT 12
so why (ha ha ha as if i dont know the answer) dont we let the saloons have used 104s etc.keep fields up,spectators interest up,lets change the rule today!!a mate has got 5 x 104s you can have now. Because half a dozen guys who think they represent what should happen for 100+ saloon's get together in a cow shed in Huntly and decide what our rules should be - then push them through at an AGM stacked with people who have a vote, but no knowledge or interest in classes other than those they are there to represent... Hence why we have no mirrors and aren't allowed $100 weight jackers this year! Saving money by allowing cheap secondhand tyres therefore hardly gets a look in, as its far too sensible... So Murray - what you're saying about importing expensive tyres that get around the 14" footprint - is that the reason for the 19.5" rule Tony pointed out?? |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Nov 5, 2009 17:29:20 GMT 12
... So Murray - what you're saying about importing expensive tyres that get around the 14" footprint - is that the reason for the 19.5" rule Tony pointed out?? All I'm saying is the gap is getting wider between the have and the have nots. That the recent rule changes did little to close the gap, to better ensure more saloon cars are competitive. Saloon racing rules are far from applied and understood and abused by few, including competitors and referees. |
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Post by 98wsaloon on Nov 5, 2009 17:41:25 GMT 12
id be interested to know who changed the tyre rule (19.5)wouldnt you?id bet it isnt a "budget racer""
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Post by Super Saloon 11m on Nov 5, 2009 17:42:07 GMT 12
so why (ha ha ha as if i dont know the answer) dont we let the saloons have used 104s etc.keep fields up,spectators interest up,lets change the rule today!!a mate has got 5 x 104s you can have now. Because half a dozen guys who think they represent what should happen for 100+ saloon's get together in a cow shed in Huntly and decide what our rules should be - then push them through at an AGM stacked with people who have a vote, but no knowledge or interest in classes other than those they are there to represent... Hence why we have no mirrors and aren't allowed $100 weight jackers this year! Saving money by allowing cheap secondhand tyres therefore hardly gets a look in, as its far too sensible... So Murray - what you're saying about importing expensive tyres that get around the 14" footprint - is that the reason for the 19.5" rule Tony pointed out?? Agree re some older tires, have a few myself someone could have, however saying that, and its been said before, if you allowed the wider and larger tires, would this not give more benefit to larger value motors that can use more power? just a thought, limit the available tread patten to keep budgets down?. |
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Post by chris13w on Nov 5, 2009 18:02:41 GMT 12
I would say if anything, trying to turn a bigger and heavier wheel would actually slow down a car with limited horsepower, so a trade off between grip and weight would probably make it all about the same. (Easy enough for SNZ to run a back to back trial though - 1 car, two wheels, subsequent runs on the same track - soon find out).
Just think though, Super Saloons, Sprintcars, Modifieds - they all run 104's - they all run at the top of the sport, so would never run with old tyres - but no one can buy their second hand ones for other classes - so they must just end up being thrown away...
Think how it would help make speedway Greener - less tyres going into landfills!!!
Also - who needs expensive beadlocks then - why would it matter if the tyre your wrecking only cost $50 to replace???
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Post by gjd on Nov 5, 2009 18:59:29 GMT 12
COMMONSENCE its not as common as its all cracked up to be
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Post by GavS on Nov 5, 2009 20:38:02 GMT 12
we use to give all our 104's to the a graders, now due to them being saloons, we have no one to give them to, so yea just getting thrown away
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Post by chris13w on Nov 5, 2009 20:44:19 GMT 12
we use to give all our 104's to the a graders, now due to them being saloons, we have no one to give them to, so yea just getting thrown away Aren't there still more A Grades than Saloons in the South though?? (Otherwise there would be a South Island Saloon title)... So you probably do still have a few options for selling on second hand 104's down there |
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Post by chris13w on Nov 5, 2009 20:49:30 GMT 12
id be interested to know who changed the tyre rule (19.5)wouldn't you?id bet it isnt a "budget racer"" Coming back to this rule - have you measured up any tyres yet to see if its a problem Tony? I don't have any mounted up on rims so can't check any of mine. Seems that its measuring the bulge in the sidewall though, so as long as you've got 30-40 psi in them when you measure them I guess anything will comply?? |
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Post by strx7 on Nov 5, 2009 20:55:39 GMT 12
COMMONSENCE its not as common as its all cracked up to be If sense was common, every one would have it!!!! |
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Post by Murray Guy (Grandad) on Nov 5, 2009 21:03:56 GMT 12
id be interested to know who changed the tyre rule (19.5)wouldn't you?id bet it isnt a "budget racer"" Coming back to this rule - have you measured up any tyres yet to see if its a problem Tony? I don't have any mounted up on rims so can't check any of mine. Seems that its measuring the bulge in the sidewall though, so as long as you've got 30-40 psi in them when you measure them I guess anything will comply?? It's how I car comes off a track that is critical, not in the pits prior. 104 x 17 x 15 tyre on a 14" saloon rim at 9 pound = 18 3/4" overall tyre width off car. Circumference approx 103" Tread 16 1/2" The above at 4lb 101" circumference. So if you could buy ex USA a 98/99 x 17 x 15 you would enjoy a significant advantage on a slick track, or any track if you engine had the grunt to turn it! |
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Some big budget flag chasers would object. The bigger the footprint the better traction (slick track) and peasants using larger 2nd hand tyres might erode their advantage.
