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Post by lexus57p on Jan 7, 2010 10:40:06 GMT 12
sure seems like everyone has an opinion on them and from a drivers perspective we have all been affected both positively and negatively by them. Maybe the time has come for the superstock class to adopt same yellow light strategy that other classes use when an incident occurs?
my idea would be for a thumbs down situation/fire/rollover etc lights go red and all cars stop! When the driver/car are removed lights go to flashing yellow and once Indian file behind the leader race goes green again. If the referee decides a car is in a dangerous position he goes yellow removes the car whilst racers continue to circulate until race goes green again.
The positives: Less over heating of engines/burning out clutches
Closer racing in smaller field events
Being able to locate a target easier after a
stoppage
No stationery cars left on the racing line once race
starts again.
No major advantage gained by drivers who fail to
stop currently under red lights.
The Negatives: The leader loses the advantage he has gained
prior to the stoppage
Fuel loads may need to be increased
Guys going thumbs down to assist a clubmate to
regain lost ground.
I'm sure many others will have opinions on the above but it sure seems like the current system isn't working
dt -superstock 57p
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Post by percy on Jan 7, 2010 10:53:48 GMT 12
I'd love to know how you propose to order the field. Given the close nature of Superstock racing ordering the field at the time of the red would be near impossible.
We could go back to the previous completed lap but is that fair? What if someone has been spun or hit in the last lap - they would get their place back.
And what if something happened in the first lap? A total restart?
I know the current system isn't perfect but I think its the best way to go forward.
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Post by Admin on Jan 7, 2010 11:05:36 GMT 12
I'd love to know how you propose to order the field. Given the close nature of Superstock racing ordering the field at the time of the red would be near impossible. We could go back to the previous completed lap but is that fair? What if someone has been spun or hit in the last lap - they would get their place back. And what if something happened in the first lap? A total restart? I know the current system isn't perfect but I think its the best way to go forward. imagine you just ruined some sods race and the next thing he's lined up on your back bumper by the officials because of a yellow light. I suppose it could be good for us lot watching. like I said before, it's worked reasonably ok for years , just need the ref to toughen up once in a while to reinforce the existing rule. I also think much of the grumbling comes about when people perceive that a driver they don't like has gained some sort of advantage or a driver they favour has lost some . i.e the problem is more to do the watchers than the racers or officials . |
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Post by TheFanVan.co.nz on Jan 7, 2010 11:31:28 GMT 12
When I started racing I was told to only stop as fast as the car behind you so you don't get nailed and you don't loose any ground. Having said this if everyone did that then no-one would stop.
Personally I would see the negatives of the yellow-light concept as far outweighting the positives. The abuse of the suggested concept to assist others is a very real threat which could ruin races/titles. If you are holding a car in/up the wall the last thing you want to be told to do is move away and join up with the queue.
There is a rule in place that deals with it and there is also a penalty regime in place to deal with it. Maybe its just one of those situations where more application of the exclusion penalty may be needed so that people know if they push it there may well be some severe consequences. Frankly the fining option is not a deterrent to stop it IMHO
Sure there might be some people at the start who get unfairly treated (ie some people missed while others get excluded for the same action) but you need to start drawing a line in the sand so that its the drivers choice whether to push it or not.
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Post by Jason (trackman) on Jan 7, 2010 12:52:01 GMT 12
All good and bad point's, But from my point of view if it's not broke don't fix it. Maybe referee's do need to get harder? It's bad and dangerous enough to remove cars that have broken on the track in the other classes while they are still mobile under yellow let alone a all steel 1500 kg stockcar that has no give at all. I just think red is red for this class. Just my thought's.
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Post by percy on Jan 7, 2010 12:59:11 GMT 12
All good and bad point's, But from my point of view if it's not broke don't fix it. Maybe referee's do need to get harder? It's bad and dangerous enough to remove cars that have broken on the track in the other classes while they are still mobile under yellow let alone a all steel 1500 kg stockcar that has no give at all. I just think red is red for this class. Just my thought's. Some time ago baypark experimented with something very similar to what the original post is suggesting. Are you able to advise why Baypark stopped doing it Jase? |
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Post by MadMarty13B on Jan 7, 2010 13:54:34 GMT 12
It is not a matter of refs getting harder its a matter of them policing their job better which is where they are lacking and this point they dont seem to have enough staff to do this. SNZ need to put these measures in place as soon as possible they need more eyes out there you cant have a rule and rule on it to its extremity unless it is policed properly where the outcome is the same for everyone
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Post by mining 126 on Jan 7, 2010 14:01:29 GMT 12
if we look at the most successful series in the world nascar , they also had a problem with yellow and red light situations , they however waited to long and sure enough someone was fatally hurt , now the race goes back to last recorded positions , the situation for us would mean the last completed lap ,sure some would still find a way to take advantage of this as well , some can not help themselves , only my opinion  |
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Post by lexus57p on Jan 7, 2010 14:01:38 GMT 12
maybe excluding drivers who breach the rule will help, but no body wants to wait around till midnight when the last protest is heard. Most of the UK classes run under the circulate under the yellow rule would be interesting to hear from the likes of FWJ as to the pro's and con's
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Post by Admin on Jan 7, 2010 14:12:32 GMT 12
Some of the longest most frustrating waits I have had is when it's taken absolutely ages to get a field of saloons in order while they are circulating under yellows. I can imagine what would happen with a large stockcar field.
the only change I will like to see is to take away the protesting/appealing . Let the ref call it like other sports.
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Post by BarryB on Jan 7, 2010 14:47:45 GMT 12
the only change I will like to see is to take away the protesting/appealing . Let the ref call it like other sports. We could introduce a penalty system, and maybe a free hit instead of a free kick. A bonus 3 points if you can put the other car over the pit gate but between the uprights........... |
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Post by petrolfumes on Jan 7, 2010 15:35:33 GMT 12
the only change I will like to see is to take away the protesting/appealing . Let the ref call it like other sports. We could introduce a penalty system, and maybe a free hit instead of a free kick. A bonus 3 points if you can put the other car over the pit gate but between the uprights........... 8 Red Marks around the track on the wall Go back to last one park behind the car in front : evens up the playing field |
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Post by BarryB on Jan 7, 2010 16:01:41 GMT 12
Do not pass go, do not collect $200
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Post by 41ford on Jan 7, 2010 16:11:48 GMT 12
Its an area with great debate, I feel it comes down to the ref making the call and sometimes like all refs they get it wrong!!!
Like when stuck mid corner on the racing line at the time in a field of 30 odd cars is a very dangerous place to be sitting but No light???
Result ended up with driver knocked out from a hit from behind that he could not see coming!!
As said before is it going to take a fatal crash to wake some of these refs up!!
I was told in the mentoring scheme that a red means you stop as quickly and as smooth as possible not a sudden stop on red, So this can played on to seek that few extra meters cant it!!
My Thoughts
Corey
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Post by joker9377 on Jan 7, 2010 16:24:52 GMT 12
I think you have to forget about the spectator point of view when it comes to safety (red light) and dont worry how long it takes after the fact (getting car off track) as long as the hazard is removed and the driver is going to be safe then that driver will be back next meeting/race for us all to be entertained.
I watched at Stratford last weekend the stockcar guys doing almost 1/3 of a lap before stopping. It got so bad the referee gave a warning in the pits but nothing changed in the next races....I would give a warning then if the offender does it again in the next 3 meetings or so then he/she is trailered for the night. Maybe put a note in the logbook and if that person travels the next track can also be on the lookout.
my 2cents...
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Post by Brett85p on Jan 7, 2010 16:27:51 GMT 12
if we look at the most successful series in the world nascar , they also had a problem with yellow and red light situations , they however waited to long and sure enough someone was fatally hurt , now the race goes back to last recorded positions , the situation for us would mean the last completed lap ,sure some would still find a way to take advantage of this as well , some can not help themselves , only my opinion NASCAR has the benefit of multiple lapscoring loops around the track so don't have to go back very far when the caution comes out. They had a very dangerous system in place previously where drivers would race back to the start finish line to secure their restart position. Not cool if the accident is on the start/finish straight. |
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Post by Jason (trackman) on Jan 7, 2010 17:48:17 GMT 12
Yes Percy you are right. Safety of the infield VOLUNTEERS was a big part of it.It's easier to help drivers of this class when they are stationary and no one's moving.That's for position or injury.Like I said part of it.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 18:06:11 GMT 12
Some of the longest most frustrating waits I have had is when it's taken absolutely ages to get a field of saloons in order... Perhaps you should consider making a bid on this item Macgor.  At the very least it would make the waiting a little more comfortable. ;D The Q&A make interesting reading as well! www.trademe.co.nz/Toys-models/Rideon-toys/Other/auction-264141608.htm |
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Post by ginga912 on Jan 7, 2010 20:29:42 GMT 12
Surely if the ref's started to pull people off, guys wouldnt risk in a big meeting?
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Post by Jeff See on Jan 7, 2010 20:33:24 GMT 12
Would it help if the lights flashed orange then red?
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