2. People who agree that what happened was wrong and thinking the punishment was fair is fine, that is your opinion. But how can some people think that what happened was ok?.
There were a number of other hits that cut the poleline to take drivers out on Finals night.
These received no punishment.
Were the worse than Beattles? Maybe they wern't as far infeild...but they still had more wheels on or over the poleline that on the track.
Yet, they escaped unpunished.
So since Beattle had a little more of the car on the grass, he was punished.
Not sure if that is justifying what happened, or simply identifying the onconsistancies that have occured?
Or is it that one got away with using the infeild, and one didn't...or one was more on the infeild, and the other had an "acceptable" amount of car on the infeild....
Surely it wasn;t the letter on car who was being attacked both times, as in both instances it was 11p.
Maybe it was for some other reason?
well said mr o,wiether 2 inches or 2 feet over the poleline .over is over correct.wasnt there but from reports mr marshall 51w took pee wee to the wall with all 4 wheels on the the grass? there for loosing valuable places for a nz title.sure beattle was in qualifing and could of ruined pee wees chances of a finals spot .but in my opinion 51w,s is far worse as 11p was on song to win the title, and have know beatle for many many years and one hell of a nice guy on or off the track ,i for one believe everything he has posted here .as reagn stated WHATS DONE IS DONE MOVE ON
Fair enough but isn't history supposed to teach us, so we can keep learning.
Surely something has to be done to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again at future championship meetings or any meetings in fact.
Last time I looked the race surface is the brown stuff and not the green stuff. If it costs you $100 by only being 2 or 3 car widths on the grass, where does it stop? how far on the infield is totally unacceptable and is $100 going to make a perpetraitor stop and think so they don't do it again???
I understand that Beatle has apologised but whats to stop him or any other competitor from doing these type of hits at future meetings.
Firstly the refs got it pretty well right and i feel the $100 fine and trailered was probably fair enough.
Thats funny, at the drivers meeting for the finalists on Saturday, the ref apologised to the drivers and said that he got it wrong.
I wont repeat what he actually said, but it was not complimentary and did say if he had his time again he would've imposed a more serious punishment.
I may be thick, but there's two things I cant understand here:
1. How could Beatle not possibly realise that he was no longer on the track. He was already right beside the poleline, and was punted inwards, up the substantial height concrete poleline and therefore no longer on the track. I've seen cars get beached, airborne etc going up or coming down off that poleline.
I've also seen hundreds of drivers at oodles of different meetings get punted infield who then yield, resisting the urge to cane the car that did it. I cant see why that didn't happen in this case?
And to a lesser extent, 2. People who agree that what happened was wrong and thinking the punishment was fair is fine, that is your opinion. But how can some people think that what happened was ok?
What you're saying is next season we could assign a hit squad of drivers to cut the grass and take select drivers out of the title, and escape with $100 fines each. Sounds good to me... I better get saving my pennies. But that aint Stockcar racing to me, its Masport racing.
Basil, your posts on this and in other threads have become incredably biased - do you have two eyes still ?
You have just read beatle's response, yet you carry on with your little mission !!!! You seem to forget that Beatle took a full-trottle (well it looked like it) punt in the backside which directed him onto the grass - he then has tenths of a second to act instinctively which in this case was to find your precious peewee and in his mirrors and line him up. Do you really think he had time to evaluate his position on the track ? - if your answer is yes - then you most certainly are as you say "thick".
There are subtle differences in all cases of pole line cutting and each should be delt with on it's own merrits. This one was was delt with, so please, please spare us your condecending dribble and get over it.
Can you tell me though Basil, back in 05 (I think) when the Glen Eagles raced the Mustangs in the Final of the teams champs, a racer named Ngatai was taken infield by another racer named Hayes I think it was, he then carried on and took them both into the wall. I like many in the crowd cired foul - the race was stopped - Ngatai was removed and the Mustangs went on to record a popular victory. WHat penalty did Ngatai receive ? Any ? did anyone care ? Did anyone throw any stones at him ?
You have just read beatle's response, yet you carry on with your little mission !!!! You seem to forget that Beatle took a full-trottle (well it looked like it) punt in the backside which directed him onto the grass - he then has tenths of a second to act instinctively which in this case was to find your precious peewee and in his mirrors and line him up. Do you really think he had time to evaluate his position on the track ? - if your answer is yes - then you most certainly are as you say
Read my post again. If this is the reasoning, then how come it doesnt happen more often? Plenty of other drivers receive the same sort of hit and resist the urge to plow on across the grass and hit their attacker
Can you tell me though Basil, back in 05 (I think) when the Glen Eagles raced the Mustangs in the Final of the teams champs, a racer named Ngatai was taken infield by another racer named Hayes I think it was, he then carried on and took them both into the wall. I like many in the crowd cired foul - the race was stopped - Ngatai was removed and the Mustangs went on to record a popular victory. WHat penalty did Ngatai receive ? Any ? did anyone care ? Did anyone throw any stones at him ?
Him being removed from the race immediately was deemed punishment enough. This effectively cost them the teams title, as they only had one car left sort of mobile after this.
If they had not removed him and Chch won the race, then I assume some action would've been taken, probably disqualification of the team. Which then would've been punishment enough too.
I don't quite understand why people are saying "this shouldn't be allowed to happen in a championship meeting". Surely it should be ALL meetings that the rules should be enforced. And surely there are also plenty of legal ways to take people out of contention. If Beatle had waited another lap and then drilled him legally, and probably with more damage, would there even have been this amount of talk about it? I'd say that some of the people who were rubbishing Beatles actions would have probably said in that instance that it was a great, strategic hit. Who knows. But it looks like it's a dead topic anyway. Done and dusted as I think someone else said.
lets put a wall on the inside like the poms that will solve the pole line issue
Was thinking exactly that myself Regan, but as has been made quite clear recently only drivers should be able to suggest such things. One has now, so let the debate begin ;D ;D ;D
Would certainly make for some interesting antics as somebody makes the big lunge, mistimes and hits the inside barrier and takes his buddy out instead
“The guy who invented the first wheel was an idiot. The guy who invented the other three, HE was a genius.”.........."Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
It was certainly included in the website reveiw...interesting to see a wellington reveiwer so moved by a hit against one of wellingtons biggest threats?
The review was written by someone from outside of Welly. EDIT: I can see the point tho, it was on the welly website, so it comes from welly. Maybe for that reason it should have been changed.
I looked at it before it was posted and considered changing it, but decided against it. Maybe I should have, but I know in the past I have written reviews, only to see them changed to the point where they no longer reflect what I saw. That peeves me... So I left it as it was.
I can also add that none of the commontators used "that" word, although I will get the speakers checked becase it seems twice on Fri night the speakers broadcast things that were never said, after an e mail I got on Sat morn putting words in my mouth. ;D ;D
Last Edit: Jan 29, 2009 13:44:06 GMT 12 by Deleted
It's not just Welly's speakers that suffer from that phenomenon Ramjam ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Now maybe an apology from the person that bagged the commentators for inciting the situation, when no such words were used, might be nice.........
“The guy who invented the first wheel was an idiot. The guy who invented the other three, HE was a genius.”.........."Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
I think speakers all around the country have a ability to change the words on the way out the speakers and into the ears.I look forward to the mouse with large ears correcting the posting and perhaps putting somethings right. There was far too much emotion in some of the postings and very little sense. Perhaps the real issue should be dealing with those that threw the stones at Beatle, that to me is a far greater offence. At least beattle went and talked to pete, have the others been to see Beatle. and whats more will they be allowed back at a speedway track?
Gentlemen of the Commentary Box - perhaps it has something to do with brain cells being slightly addled by the combination of a night's racing and certain bevereges, and receiving mixed messages - the upshot of which is that the recipient hears what he/she WANTS to hear, not necessarily what is said!
Basil, your posts on this and in other threads have become incredably biased - do you have two eyes still ?
I would like to think the drivers in question are irrelevant. I'm looking forward to everyone's response next time this happens - mine included.
Read my post again. If this is the reasoning, then how come it doesnt happen more often? Plenty of other drivers receive the same sort of hit and resist the urge to plow on across the grass and hit their attacker
Can you tell me though Basil, back in 05 (I think) when the Glen Eagles raced the Mustangs in the Final of the teams champs, a racer named Ngatai was taken infield by another racer named Hayes I think it was, he then carried on and took them both into the wall. I like many in the crowd cired foul - the race was stopped - Ngatai was removed and the Mustangs went on to record a popular victory. WHat penalty did Ngatai receive ? Any ? did anyone care ? Did anyone throw any stones at him ?
Him being removed from the race immediately was deemed punishment enough. This effectively cost them the teams title, as they only had one car left sort of mobile after this.
If they had not removed him and Chch won the race, then I assume some action would've been taken, probably disqualification of the team. Which then would've been punishment enough too.
Basil,
(1) The reason I bothered to post this time was simply beacuse you seem to care a whole lot more when a P cars are involved, and even more so when a peewee car is involved.
(2) I think it does happen a lot more than than you suggest, which is why I struggle to see why you're hanging on to this particular incident - again my opinion is simply based on your obsession with everything peewee. If that's not the case then hey, my bad... I withdraw and apologise...
(3) I think you are trying to say that the Ngatai Hayes incident was appropriately delt with and the P cars won. But the Beatle Rees incident ended in the same result - the P car won. What's the difference ? The incidents were so similar it's not funny. You said above "Which then would've been punishment enough too" - are you now saying that beatle was punished appropriately ? or are you comparing it to Ngatais removal from the race ? - because that is pretty much what happened to beatle !!!! So if that's the case then it is somewhat of a contradiction don't you think ??
Anyway, I'd love to know what you would like done to beatle. You have certainly continued waving the burning stick long after the dust has settled - but have stopped short of laying it on the line.
(2) I think it does happen a lot more than than you suggest, which is why I struggle to see why you're hanging on to this particular incident - again my opinion is simply based on your obsession with everything peewee. If that's not the case then hey, my bad... I withdraw and apologise...
Ok, so how about all these other instances of it happening? You have named one, how about some other examples. We are talking driving from the grass to attack here.
Maybe he is hanging on to this instance because it happened last weekend, pretty fresh in memory, compared to something back in 2005. If it happens again, and Basil sees it, I'm sure he will make the same comments again.
Glad to see you agree with the punishment given, not much of a deterrent to stop someone doing it again is it.
Last Edit: Jan 29, 2009 14:55:25 GMT 12 by FrankTheTank
(1) The reason I bothered to post this time was simply beacuse you seem to care a whole lot more when a P cars are involved, and even more so when a peewee car is involved
Wooo, state the obvious. I said in one of the other threads I was biased, as everyone is. If it was a Wellington driver on a top Rotorua title hope, no I wouldn’t care as much. But I would still think it is wrong, and would reply in a thread as such.
(2) I think it does happen a lot more than than you suggest, which is why I struggle to see why you're hanging on to this particular incident
I cant think of another incident quite like this. Feel free to provide evidence of any other examples to back up your statement.
The Ngatai one was similar, but both were pushing each other side by side in a teams race. This one was a punt out of the way and carry on round the corner in an individual event.
(3) I think you are trying to say that the Ngatai Hayes incident was appropriately delt with and the P cars won. But the Beatle Rees incident ended in the same result - the P car won. What's the difference ? The incidents were so similar it's not funny.
They are similar, but not identical as pointed out above. The difference here is the precedent that has been set.
An act like this could remove you and/or your whole team from the Teams Champs. Letting yourself, team fans, and the rest of your team down is enough incentive to put you off.
But an act like this that could end an individuals chances of a title only costs you $100. Do you think that is that fair, or incentive enough to prevent it from happening again? I’m talking about providing for the future here, not necessarily just this incident.
Anyway, I'd love to know what you would like done to beatle. You have certainly continued waving the burning stick long after the dust has settled - but have stopped short of laying it on the line.
It's not up to me, and bear in mind I didn’t start any of the threads asking if it was fair punishment.
I haven’t been waving any flag, people keep replying so I reply back. All I have done is try and get people to see an alternative side to the way they are thinking. Nowhere have I said anyone was right or wrong, and I am allowed to state my own opinion, as everyone is.
I would like to thank Beatle for coming on here and giving us his version of events. Thankfully we're all got somewhere to discuss our favourite sport, and having drivers on board does lend some form of credence to the place!
Last Edit: Jan 29, 2009 15:33:11 GMT 12 by Deleted
[ Ok, so how about all these other instances of it happening? You have named one, how about some other examples. We are talking driving from the grass to attack here.
Check out this link for an example of the hit Frank the Rank talks of above. You can see both inside wheels cross the poleline, and go onto the grass before the hit. You see the car rise up as it crosses the poleline.
Is this the type of example you are referring too frank the tank?
Or is two wheels on the grass ok - surely a man of your knowledge recognises that two on the grass must also equal 4 on the grass. As for severity on the car in questions, well you be the judge.
Last Edit: Jan 29, 2009 15:45:20 GMT 12 by The Observer
Meeanee - Palmerston North - Greenstone Park - Te Marua - Greenstone Park (the return) - Woodford Glen
We now have many sides to what happened, but again i ask what is going to happen to the person Beatle named as throwing stones and abuse at him at a speedway track. never mind the action on the track, that has been dealt with, shouldn't the off track incident be dealt with too?
[ Ok, so how about all these other instances of it happening? You have named one, how about some other examples. We are talking driving from the grass to attack here.
Check out this link for an example of the hit Frank the Rank talks of above. You can see both inside wheels cross the poleline, and go onto the grass before the hit. You see the car rise up as it crosses the poleline.
Is this the type of example you are referring too frank the tank?
Or is two wheels on the grass ok - surely a man of your knowledge recognises that two on the grass must also equal 4 on the grass. As for severity on the car in questions, well you be the judge.
That is an illegal move too in the video link above. All breaking of the rules needs to be punished. What good is having rules if they are going to be broken with little or no consequence?
Not the four wheels on the grass as referred to earlier, but illegal nonetheless.
Grass cutting is being done all too often, to hit, and also avoid being hit. Really does need to be stamped out.
Last Edit: Jan 29, 2009 16:00:02 GMT 12 by FrankTheTank
how far on the infield is totally unacceptable and is $100 going to make a perpetraitor stop and think so they don't do it again??? 
