|
|
Post by graemeh on Feb 8, 2018 7:13:45 GMT 12
They did interview the ref after race and he said since the attack wasn’t on a lead GB car that’s the reason for exclusion and stand down. He said had attack been on lead GB car it would have been a total different story. To me that’s wrong, any attack on any of the 4 opposition cars should be dealt with the same and punished the same. You don’t change penalty rulings in rugby or league if 1 team is 30 points behind with 5 mins to go. Had the attack not happened Panthers would have still won easily, but GB might have got the points to race Stratford for 3rd and retain a seeding for next years event. What a load of rubbish, i'd bet you wont find this rule in the teams race manual, massive grey area, depending if your lead car or last car gets taken out illegaly depends on the punishment to the offending driver, what BS, the biggest meeting on the calendar, this is the best the referee comes up with?? Well said totspete, seen it before, not just with the car in question either, depends what letter you have on your wing I think both of you need to read the actual "Code of Ethics". The referees actions were totally consistent with the rules. |
|
|
|
Post by gregobro on Feb 8, 2018 8:08:56 GMT 12
Some interesting reading here, a very polarising driver thats for sure! While at the meeting I thought the incident that would generate the most chatter would be the hit on the roof plate of the gb car that rolled but as soon as the other incident happened the crowd reaction told me nooooooo that's the one thats gonna set the internet alight! Who would be a referee aye? Perhaps one of them should get Warrior of the Oval LOL!!
** I will just add, the more rules you add for every type of incident happening under the sun, the more confusing it gets and the racing will become so tame that drivers won't be able to do anything because they'll be second guessing themselves before they hit anything! You have to have a bit of refs interpretation I believe.
|
|
|
|
Post by h8flagracers on Feb 8, 2018 8:28:36 GMT 12
I agree with totspete, its the same driver every year that does something wrong, in that same race I saw 3 things he did wrong,
1- the hit across grass everyone's talking about
2- driving up into the roof plate on the gb car after it had rolled. (which its lucky he did or it wouldn't have landed back on its wheels)
3- on one of the red lights he was parked down entering turn 1 with a gb car in front of him, when light went green he pushed the gb car around abit then put atleast 2 (maybe 4) wheels across grass to get past him rather then go around the outside of him. pretty poor from a guy that's been around aslong as wayne has,
and don't even get me started on how ridiculous the jordans not in the team if I'm not situation is.. (it must feel real good knowing your only in the team because jordans so good, not on your own merits)
|
|
|
|
Post by nottosure on Feb 8, 2018 10:17:47 GMT 12
Defend 591 all you like ... but why is it, year after year, the same driver committing variations of the same offence? Are the sight lines in his car that much worse than anyone elses? Is his car travelling that much faster than every other one that he can't react to being 3m inside the pole line because of the speed involved? A couple of seasons back 84N incurred significant cost through fire damage on a hit that was marginal at best. Last year, there was a penalty applied and the 591 lawnmower memes came out again. I really thought some kind of lesson would be absorbed this time but, again, an opposing car was heavily impacted with consequences for the GB team and we are meant to believe that this is just repeated bad luck and driver bashing? If Peter B was always being lined up to return for the final, then Wayne was most likely the reserve anyway. If his exclusion, having wrecked the GB car, was always part of the plan, then I bow to some superior tactics. Well played. Never a truer word spoken totspete and bang on the money. Every year this same driver carries out at least one indiscretion and it always involves grass cutting. It was nothing but blatant on Sunday night and he can dress it up with any excuse he likes but for the amount of years he's teams raced there's no excuses. Other drivers like Bengston, Rees, Remnant have been in the game as long as Hemi, but none of these drivers have the same issues year after year as what the 591p seems to have with keeping his racing on the track or doing downright dumb things. If the incident had of happened to him there's no doubt he'd be crying foul about it. He isn't new to the class or teams racing yet he seems a massive liability to any team he races for. I realise he got stood down from any further involvement in the final but it's hard to fathom why the Referees don't make the punishment team wide. It seems that if the offending car isn't in the running results wise they only punish the offender, how's that penalising the team they're actually representing for what they've done? It is a teams race not an individual race, so any indiscretion needing punishment should affect the whole team otherwise it'll become a case of some teams using any form of illegality on the track to win so long as it's not caused by their lead car. Although GB had no chance of winning the race when Hemi cut the poleline,it wasn't the first obvious indiscretion (as stated above) by him. Maybe he needs to look at the amount of continuous incidents he's in and either change his driving/awareness or think about whether he's actually cut out to be involved in teams racing anymore. |
|
|
|
Post by 57victoria on Feb 8, 2018 11:18:42 GMT 12
It would be interesting if Wayne dropped his "both cars or no cars" stance, Jordan would probably get selected without question, but would the team selectors then have the balls to not select Wayne?
|
|
farma
Full Member
Posts: 102
|
Post by farma on Feb 8, 2018 13:24:06 GMT 12
Defend 591 all you like ... but why is it, year after year, the same driver committing variations of the same offence? Are the sight lines in his car that much worse than anyone elses? Is his car travelling that much faster than every other one that he can't react to being 3m inside the pole line because of the speed involved? A couple of seasons back 84N incurred significant cost through fire damage on a hit that was marginal at best. Last year, there was a penalty applied and the 591 lawnmower memes came out again. I really thought some kind of lesson would be absorbed this time but, again, an opposing car was heavily impacted with consequences for the GB team and we are meant to believe that this is just repeated bad luck and driver bashing? If Peter B was always being lined up to return for the final, then Wayne was most likely the reserve anyway. If his exclusion, having wrecked the GB car, was always part of the plan, then I bow to some superior tactics. Well played. Never a truer word spoken totspete and bang on the money. Every year this same driver carries out at least one indiscretion and it always involves grass cutting. It was nothing but blatant on Sunday night and he can dress it up with any excuse he likes but for the amount of years he's teams raced there's no excuses. Other drivers like Bengston, Rees, Remnant have been in the game as long as Hemi, but none of these drivers have the same issues year after year as what the 591p seems to have with keeping his racing on the track or doing downright dumb things. If the incident had of happened to him there's no doubt he'd be crying foul about it. He isn't new to the class or teams racing yet he seems a massive liability to any team he races for. I realise he got stood down from any further involvement in the final but it's hard to fathom why the Referees don't make the punishment team wide. It seems that if the offending car isn't in the running results wise they only punish the offender, how's that penalising the team they're actually representing for what they've done? It is a teams race not an individual race, so any indiscretion needing punishment should affect the whole team otherwise it'll become a case of some teams using any form of illegality on the track to win so long as it's not caused by their lead car. Although GB had no chance of winning the race when Hemi cut the poleline,it wasn't the first obvious indiscretion (as stated above) by him. Maybe he needs to look at the amount of continuous incidents he's in and either change his driving/awareness or think about whether he's actually cut out to be involved in teams racing anymore. Did you see Wayne crying foul after Ngatai planted him in the wall after they had both taken the chequered flag on night one? Was this post race incident penalised at all? I'm not saying Wayne wasn't in the wrong for the incident in the semi, but perhaps some people could try watching all of the races with both eyes open, and not just the ones where a driver with a P on the car is in the wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by 4zfed on Feb 8, 2018 16:28:51 GMT 12
Never a truer word spoken totspete and bang on the money. Every year this same driver carries out at least one indiscretion and it always involves grass cutting. It was nothing but blatant on Sunday night and he can dress it up with any excuse he likes but for the amount of years he's teams raced there's no excuses. Other drivers like Bengston, Rees, Remnant have been in the game as long as Hemi, but none of these drivers have the same issues year after year as what the 591p seems to have with keeping his racing on the track or doing downright dumb things. If the incident had of happened to him there's no doubt he'd be crying foul about it. He isn't new to the class or teams racing yet he seems a massive liability to any team he races for. I realise he got stood down from any further involvement in the final but it's hard to fathom why the Referees don't make the punishment team wide. It seems that if the offending car isn't in the running results wise they only punish the offender, how's that penalising the team they're actually representing for what they've done? It is a teams race not an individual race, so any indiscretion needing punishment should affect the whole team otherwise it'll become a case of some teams using any form of illegality on the track to win so long as it's not caused by their lead car. Although GB had no chance of winning the race when Hemi cut the poleline,it wasn't the first obvious indiscretion (as stated above) by him. Maybe he needs to look at the amount of continuous incidents he's in and either change his driving/awareness or think about whether he's actually cut out to be involved in teams racing anymore. Did you see Wayne crying foul after Ngatai planted him in the wall after they had both taken the chequered flag on night one? Was this post race incident penalised at all? I'm not saying Wayne wasn't in the wrong for the incident in the semi, but perhaps some people could try watching all of the races with both eyes open, and not just the ones where a driver with a P on the car is in the wrong. I was waiting for someone to bring this incident up. It was over half a lap after the chequered flag too & certainly wasnt a small hit-was anything at all done about it? Cause if not whos to stop teams doing deals that if they are going to loose, try damage the other team to hinder them in the next round. I was impressed that Hemi just calmly hoped out of his car & walked away. Im not a Panthers fan in anyway but i thought up until the incident vs GB Wayne had really justified his position in the Panthers. There certainly wasnt anyone in the Mustangs that performed well enough to of put a question in the selectors minds. |
|
|
|
Post by Wildcat on Feb 8, 2018 17:05:36 GMT 12
You could have any palmy driver in that Panthers team The 3 stars in all races where the young ones Humpries Miers and Dare They where bloody brilliantDue respect to Hemi Bengston been good over the years They can look to blood new younger guys Good space to be in
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 17:42:42 GMT 12
You could have any palmy driver in that Panthers team The 3 stars in all races where the young ones Humpries Miers and Dare They where bloody brilliantDue respect to Hemi Bengston been good over the years They can look to blood new younger guys Good space to be in Totally agree . These young guys are really stepping up [ not only Palmy guys ] but the likes of Stanaway , Tarrant , Wise , Elsworth , Stewart ,.. etc etc . |
|
|
|
Post by penman on Feb 8, 2018 18:34:20 GMT 12
Did you see Wayne crying foul after Ngatai planted him in the wall after they had both taken the chequered flag on night one? Was this post race incident penalised at all? I'm not saying Wayne wasn't in the wrong for the incident in the semi, but perhaps some people could try watching all of the races with both eyes open, and not just the ones where a driver with a P on the car is in the wrong. I was waiting for someone to bring this incident up. It was over half a lap after the chequered flag too & certainly wasnt a small hit-was anything at all done about it? Cause if not whos to stop teams doing deals that if they are going to loose, try damage the other team to hinder them in the next round. I was impressed that Hemi just calmly hoped out of his car & walked away. Im not a Panthers fan in anyway but i thought up until the incident vs GB Wayne had really justified his position in the Panthers. There certainly wasnt anyone in the Mustangs that performed well enough to of put a question in the selectors minds. The two incidents are TOTALLY unrelated. And Hemi probably has no option other than to walk away without complaining as to moan about it would be to show a fair amount of hypocrisy given his hit in the GB race. Macgor has comment that Heml had no steering in that hit....but I don't think it had any effect on his right foot, which remained firmly planted on the loud pedal right to the wall. I used to really like the guy and what he's achieved...but the pendulum has swung the other way for me. |
|
|
|
Post by BarryB on Feb 8, 2018 18:44:59 GMT 12
i know Hemi had taken the chequered flag when the incident with Ngatai happened down the back straight, but had Ngatai been under the chequered as well? I suspect he hadn't, that he was in block mode and waiting for Hemi and wouldn't have known Hemi's race had ended, But I could be wrong about that.
Barry B
|
|
|
|
Post by BarryB on Feb 8, 2018 18:52:01 GMT 12
The two incidents are TOTALLY unrelated. And Hemi probably has no option other than to walk away without complaining as to moan about it would be to show a fair amount of hypocrisy given his hit in the GB race. Macgor has comment that Heml had no steering in that hit....but I don't think it had any effect on his right foot, which remained firmly planted on the loud pedal right to the wall. Wasn't the the Ngatai / Hemi incident on the first night, and the Hemi / Fairhurst incident on the second night? Making sure not to show hypocrisy in advance? I wonder if he knows Saturday night's Lotto Numbers? Barry B |
|
|
|
Post by penman on Feb 8, 2018 19:08:18 GMT 12
The two incidents are TOTALLY unrelated. And Hemi probably has no option other than to walk away without complaining as to moan about it would be to show a fair amount of hypocrisy given his hit in the GB race. Macgor has comment that Heml had no steering in that hit....but I don't think it had any effect on his right foot, which remained firmly planted on the loud pedal right to the wall. Wasn't the the Ngatai / Hemi incident on the first night, and the Hemi / Fairhurst incident on the second night? Making sure not to show hypocrisy in advance? I wonder if he knows Saturday night's Lotto Numbers? Barry B If you say so Barry Doesn't change the fact that the two incidents are not connected in any way |
|
|
|
Post by southsuperstock on Feb 8, 2018 19:20:51 GMT 12
What a load of rubbish, i'd bet you wont find this rule in the teams race manual, massive grey area, depending if your lead car or last car gets taken out illegaly depends on the punishment to the offending driver, what BS, the biggest meeting on the calendar, this is the best the referee comes up with?? Well said totspete, seen it before, not just with the car in question either, depends what letter you have on your wing I think both of you need to read the actual "Code of Ethics". The referees actions were totally consistent with the rules. Teams Racing Code of Ethics Page6 (c) Relegation of finishing positions. (d) Exclusion from the results of the race. (e) Exclusion from the remainder of the event. (f) Suspension for up to 15 days (Referee) or 22 days (Senior Referee), starting from the date of the offence. (g) Reporting a competitor within seven days of the date of the offence to the Board, for possible fur- ther penalty. (h) In a worst case scenario, the entire team can be excluded. POLELINE & INFIELD R12-4-34 The infield is a safety zone for infield staff and officials. Racing across or through the infield is prohibit- ed. R12-4-35 Poleline: Placing one or more wheels off the racing surface is a breach of the rules. Competitors cannot cut the pole, at any point, to hit another competitor or pass a vehicle. R12-4-36 A competitor forced over the poleline must disengage and return to the racing surface behind the competitor that forced them over the poleline. R12-4-37 If a competitor forces a car over the poleline, they must also "disengage" and cannot continue to force the opposing vehicle further onto the infield. R12-4-38 The car that was forced over the poleline must return to the track behind the forcer, on the same straight or corner. If the competitor that forced the car over the poleline chooses to sit there, the car forced over must do a u turn on the infield and return to the track, behind the opposing car. R12-4-39 Attacking a competitor from inside the poleline is prohibited. R12-4-40 Attacking a competitor from the track, who is on the infield, is prohibited. R12-4-41 Seeking sanctuary on the infield is prohibited (i.e. to avoid contact or assess the race). At the Referee’s discretion they may choose not to penalise a competitor who for safety reasons only, briefly drove in- field - i.e. to catch their breath, tighten their belts etc. Have a read regarding disengage, I have no problem with how the rules are written, but with the referee saying "had the attack been on lead GB car it would have been a total different story" Why should it be any different??? Ive read the code of ethics, and copied some of them here for you, still cant see anything regarding lead cars, last cars infringments / penalties Thanks |
|
|
|
Post by tank11 on Feb 8, 2018 19:31:46 GMT 12
when you watched the final Jason long had all 4 wheels on the grass attacking a car As did Peter Bengston on one corner, getting set up to attack while still on the grass. Couldn't be attacked, then shot across to try a hit on a giant. |
|
|
|
Post by graemeh on Feb 9, 2018 7:16:56 GMT 12
I think both of you need to read the actual "Code of Ethics". The referees actions were totally consistent with the rules. Teams Racing Code of Ethics Page6 (c) Relegation of finishing positions. (d) Exclusion from the results of the race. (e) Exclusion from the remainder of the event. (f) Suspension for up to 15 days (Referee) or 22 days (Senior Referee), starting from the date of the offence. (g) Reporting a competitor within seven days of the date of the offence to the Board, for possible fur- ther penalty. (h) In a worst case scenario, the entire team can be excluded. POLELINE & INFIELD R12-4-34 The infield is a safety zone for infield staff and officials. Racing across or through the infield is prohibit- ed. R12-4-35 Poleline: Placing one or more wheels off the racing surface is a breach of the rules. Competitors cannot cut the pole, at any point, to hit another competitor or pass a vehicle. R12-4-36 A competitor forced over the poleline must disengage and return to the racing surface behind the competitor that forced them over the poleline. R12-4-37 If a competitor forces a car over the poleline, they must also "disengage" and cannot continue to force the opposing vehicle further onto the infield. R12-4-38 The car that was forced over the poleline must return to the track behind the forcer, on the same straight or corner. If the competitor that forced the car over the poleline chooses to sit there, the car forced over must do a u turn on the infield and return to the track, behind the opposing car. R12-4-39 Attacking a competitor from inside the poleline is prohibited. R12-4-40 Attacking a competitor from the track, who is on the infield, is prohibited. R12-4-41 Seeking sanctuary on the infield is prohibited (i.e. to avoid contact or assess the race). At the Referee’s discretion they may choose not to penalise a competitor who for safety reasons only, briefly drove in- field - i.e. to catch their breath, tighten their belts etc. Have a read regarding disengage, I have no problem with how the rules are written, but with the referee saying "had the attack been on lead GB car it would have been a total different story" Why should it be any different??? Ive read the code of ethics, and copied some of them here for you, still cant see anything regarding lead cars, last cars infringments / penalties Thanks You seem to have missed the part of the rules that says " The penalties listed below are at the discretion of the Referee". In other words the opinion of the referee of the seriousness of the offence will determine what penalty he applies. Different penalty would have been applied if it was the lead car involved. Your issue seems to be with the referee's decision and possibly your personal feelings about the Palmy team or Wayne Hemi are clouding your judgement. I believe The referee acted correctly, you dont. We are all entitled to our opinion but the Referee's opinion is the only one that counts, get over it. |
|
|
|
Post by tank11 on Feb 9, 2018 7:25:32 GMT 12
Was just talking to a Palmy supporter, who was sitting about where this ended.
He was saying that after the first race they all thought Wayne had settled down.
Then this one they are yelling at him to lift when on the grass.
At the end they thought they were gone burgers, because of this incident.
I'm in two minds.
Yes wasn't the LEAD car, true.
BUT he could have taken out the Palmy lead car later, IF this hadn't happened(?)
|
|
|
|
Post by stockman32 on Feb 9, 2018 8:39:20 GMT 12
Surely it doesn't matter if it's a lead car or not. An attack from the grass is illegal and even if it's the last car running it was illegally taken out of the race.
|
|
|
|
Post by go29 on Feb 9, 2018 9:17:56 GMT 12
Was just talking to a Palmy supporter, who was sitting about where this ended. He was saying that after the first race they all thought Wayne had settled down. Then this one they are yelling at him to lift when on the grass.At the end they thought they were gone burgers, because of this incident. I'm in two minds. Yes wasn't the LEAD car, true. BUT he could have taken out the Palmy lead car later, IF this hadn't happened(?) Were they surprised when he didnt hear them yelling??  |
|
|
|
Post by tank11 on Feb 9, 2018 10:27:51 GMT 12
Was just talking to a Palmy supporter, who was sitting about where this ended. He was saying that after the first race they all thought Wayne had settled down. Then this one they are yelling at him to lift when on the grass.At the end they thought they were gone burgers, because of this incident. I'm in two minds. Yes wasn't the LEAD car, true. BUT he could have taken out the Palmy lead car later, IF this hadn't happened(?) Were they surprised when he didnt hear them yelling?? Oh and you don't yell at the TV? |
|
