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Post by percy on Nov 18, 2014 15:39:16 GMT 12
Agreed, but unfortunately I dont see how 29B can be punished any more than 126P was assuming they were both ruled straightlines, unless of course 4Bs health and safety is more important than 79Ps health and safety, or 126P is given more leniency to the rules than 29B is (which im sure isnt the case). Ultimately it looks like only the drivers can control this one by respecting the reason why the rule was implemented in the first place. Hopefully this is the last time we have to read an article in the local newspaper about racers in hospital due to straighlining! All the best to Joe for a speedy recovery I haven't seen the Joe Faram incident but going on what has been reported the facts of the two incidents are not identical thus I wouldn't expect the ruling to be the same. |
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Post by Jeffery on Nov 18, 2014 15:43:39 GMT 12
Agreed, but unfortunately I dont see how 29B can be punished any more than 126P was assuming they were both ruled straightlines, unless of course 4Bs health and safety is more important than 79Ps health and safety, or 126P is given more leniency to the rules than 29B is (which im sure isnt the case). Ultimately it looks like only the drivers can control this one by respecting the reason why the rule was implemented in the first place. Hopefully this is the last time we have to read an article in the local newspaper about racers in hospital due to straighlining! All the best to Joe for a speedy recovery I haven't seen the Joe Faram incident but going on what has been reported the facts of the two incidents are not identical thus I wouldn't expect the ruling to be the same. What are the facts on the latest incident? |
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Post by craige on Nov 18, 2014 16:14:58 GMT 12
Agreed, but unfortunately I dont see how 29B can be punished any more than 126P was assuming they were both ruled straightlines, unless of course 4Bs health and safety is more important than 79Ps health and safety, or 126P is given more leniency to the rules than 29B is (which im sure isnt the case). Ultimately it looks like only the drivers can control this one by respecting the reason why the rule was implemented in the first place. Hopefully this is the last time we have to read an article in the local newspaper about racers in hospital due to straighlining! All the best to Joe for a speedy recovery I haven't seen the Joe Faram incident but going on what has been reported the facts of the two incidents are not identical thus I wouldn't expect the ruling to be the same. straightlines a straightline.dont matter how it was done does it ? |
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Post by gazman on Nov 18, 2014 16:35:53 GMT 12
Just a quick question as to why any footage of this incident appears to be banned? I can understand the reason if there is serious injury or possibly worse but considering this post now has 3 pages, mostly from contributors who were not at the meeting, surely actual footage may put a few people straight on the topic.
The A. Rees incident on the opening night was viewed online and seems to have similar issues to this latest one.
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Post by m8sr8z on Nov 18, 2014 17:04:35 GMT 12
Fired into the concrete and we are questioning how much padding the car had Observer  ? Come on I thought you were a bit brighter than that . Isnt the reason why the straightlining rule was brought in ,because of the severe injuries . Doesn't matter what type of chassis you are in , full noise , steel hitting concrete = disaster ... SNZ should be looking no further than the driver who broke the rules, end of story ... Break the rules and seriously injure another competitor , the culprit should be stood down for the length of a season . Agreed, but unfortunately I dont see how 29B can be punished any more than 126P was assuming they were both ruled straightlines, unless of course 4Bs health and safety is more important than 79Ps health and safety, or 126P is given more leniency to the rules than 29B is (which im sure isnt the case). Ultimately it looks like only the drivers can control this one by respecting the reason why the rule was implemented in the first place. Hopefully this is the last time we have to read an article in the local newspaper about racers in hospital due to straighlining! All the best to Joe for a speedy recovery So if they assume they were both ruled straightlines and give 29B a bigger punishment more than 126P, lets say the end result on video is the same. Surely they need to realise this and would 126p get a backdated punishment? One rule for all. If the punishment isn't big enough, people are not going to learn. Make it so it doesn't happen again. First season with this marked area and look what we have. Again this is all assumed that both cases are viewed as straightlines under the new rules. |
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Post by mcfly on Nov 18, 2014 17:13:42 GMT 12
Fired into the concrete and we are questioning how much padding the car had Observer ? Come on I thought you were a bit brighter than that . Isnt the reason why the straightlining rule was brought in ,because of the severe injuries . Doesn't matter what type of chassis you are in , full noise , steel hitting concrete = disaster ... SNZ should be looking no further than the driver who broke the rules, end of story ...Break the rules and seriously injure another competitor , the culprit should be stood down for the length of a season . I disagree highrevz, not the end of the story, only the beginning of it in my opinion. We have had potentially 2 incidences of this rule having no effect on a drivers decision to do what stock cars were built for and taking another car to the wall. If the superstock drivers and SNZ really wanted to eliminate serious injuries there is only 2 ways to do so. 1, eliminate deliberate contact totally, or 2, slow the dam things down! This rule will not do what it was supposed to do - reduce injuries - this is plainly evident by the fact that already there is debate on whether or not either of these incidences were in fact straight-lines (by the rules definition) or not, and that most of the incidents that have caused the serious injuries in past couple of years were not straight-lines. These cars are going too fast for full contact racing - that is the end of the story! I do agree though that if a driver is found to have broken the rules, and the consequence of that was injury to another person, then the offending driver should have a significant suspension of license. |
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ATK
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Post by ATK on Nov 18, 2014 18:26:41 GMT 12
For those saying that Matt Demanser shouldnt be punished any more than what Asher Rees received are kidding themselves. Matt, or 29b caused serious harm to Joe Faram which, correct me if im wrong, is the reason the whole straightlining rule was bought in. To prevent serious harm to the drivers. Matt intentionally or not, caused far more harm than that of Ashers hit on Kerry Humphrey, which may or may not have been intentional.
Perhaps if a driver is found guilty of straightlining a fellow competitor and causes injury then the offending driver should be stood down until the injured driver is available to return to competition.
In my opinion if SNZ want to protect superstock drivers then the only way to do so is A) slow them down or B) change them to a non contact class.
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Post by brendanlucas on Nov 18, 2014 19:16:17 GMT 12
Some may disagree, but the grilling these young guys (both Asher & Matt) are going/gone through via social media probably far outweighs any other punitive actions they are likely to face. Whilst they may deny for technical reasons their guilt, I doubt either of them are likely to want to go through the public scrutiny again, so my money is on neither of them re-offending, if I’m allowed to call it that. I think the public scrutiny is the ultimate in character building. The rewards in this sport largely are ego driven, & to have you’re ego beaten to a pulp would be seriously damaging. I’m certainly not sympathizing with either, rather pointing out there is a punishment going on & neither have walked away ‘scot free’, & I’ll bet both will be that little bit smarter for it. Hopefully there lessons won’t have to be learned by others.
Another point I will raise that nobody else seems to have raised, is the fact in our not too distant past there was an ‘unwritten rule’ where straigtlining was actually not the done thing & this was policed by the drivers themselves. If someone broke the protocol then they would be dealt with either on or off the track. It wasn’t until about the mid seventies when straighlining become more fashionable, after some of the old guard had left the scene. Interestingly, the crowd sizes were always larger in the pre-straitlining days. A couple of generations past, & the young fellas think it’s there birth rite to carry out this ritual, news flash – it ain’t! Simple physics, the faster you go the bigger the mess & nobody can deny the cars just keep getting faster.
Cheers, BL
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Post by mjh237 on Nov 18, 2014 19:18:50 GMT 12
So now SNZ should be giving infringements based on the damage and harm caused?? Ashers incident is no different and in my eyes that has set the president. I don't know why every super stock driver just goes up to the refs box and hand them a 50 every night before racing. It would save alot of hassle.
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Post by Regan O'Brien on Nov 18, 2014 20:11:23 GMT 12
Just a quick question as to why any footage of this incident appears to be banned? I can understand the reason if there is serious injury or possibly worse but considering this post now has 3 pages, mostly from contributors who were not at the meeting, surely actual footage may put a few people straight on the topic. The A. Rees incident on the opening night was viewed online and seems to have similar issues to this latest one. SNZ are investigating it and want all footage sent to them to make a fair call before every one else starts putting there 2cents in. |
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Post by beachboy on Nov 18, 2014 20:14:49 GMT 12
Some may disagree, but the grilling these young guys (both Asher & Matt) are going/gone through via social media probably far outweighs any other punitive actions they are likely to face. Whilst they may deny for technical reasons their guilt, I doubt either of them are likely to want to go through the public scrutiny again, so my money is on neither of them re-offending, if I’m allowed to call it that. I think the public scrutiny is the ultimate in character building. The rewards in this sport largely are ego driven, & to have you’re ego beaten to a pulp would be seriously damaging. I’m certainly not sympathizing with either, rather pointing out there is a punishment going on & neither have walked away ‘scot free’, & I’ll bet both will be that little bit smarter for it. Hopefully there lessons won’t have to be learned by others. Another point I will raise that nobody else seems to have raised, is the fact in our not too distant past there was an ‘unwritten rule’ where straigtlining was actually not the done thing & this was policed by the drivers themselves. If someone broke the protocol then they would be dealt with either on or off the track. It wasn’t until about the mid seventies when straighlining become more fashionable, after some of the old guard had left the scene. Interestingly, the crowd sizes were always larger in the pre-straitlining days. A couple of generations past, & the young fellas think it’s there birth rite to carry out this ritual, news flash – it ain’t! Simple physics, the faster you go the bigger the mess & nobody can deny the cars just keep getting faster. Cheers, BL Prehaps in these recent two events these young fellas risked it knowing they are likely to be protected by family from any repercussions that may come to them on or off the track. |
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Post by Regan O'Brien on Nov 18, 2014 20:27:46 GMT 12
Ok,, just having a quick read through the comments as I don't have the patient's to read ALL lol.
1- SNZ no they stuffed up with Asher but the head ref had done the fine and punishment so really SNZ cant re make a call for a bigger fine.
2 - Seen a video last night and the Rees hit was pretty much the same as the Demanser hit, a hit of the end with broken contact and then into the side of Joe, this what it look like from the angle of the video.
3- unfortunately we might see Demanser been fined big $$ or stood down for a while to set every one straight on this rule. SNZ stuffed up once and I don't think will stuff up twice.
4- We as drivers no the rules and 1 of the rules is the "intent" of the hit, did he intend on hitting him off the end and letting go but going so fast lost control and ended up following him??
5-As Mcfly said "slow them down" sorry but you will never slow the supers down when a ministock is only 2 seconds slower and is only a 4cly.We have to reduce the contact off the end as that's when they are at there fastest and when hit they go faster.
6- As BarryB said "teams you only have 4 cars to worry about and you no he is out to smash you" Joe would never of thought he was going to get wound off so why slow down coming into the corner.
7- Last thing is with this rule "fingers cross it don't happen" If I take someone off the end knowing what I'm about to do and that person die's, I am now in deep waters as there is now a rule out saying I'm not aloud to do this, could end up in court.
Just a few points that have been brought up in HB and watch this space with our YELLOW lines on the track, they are about to change with there placing on the wall and are going to paint the whole yellow area so hopefully it can be seen.
Thanks Regan
Superstock 52b
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Post by insane1 on Nov 18, 2014 20:46:35 GMT 12
good call regan ,beachboy made a valid point there will come a time when these young drivers have to stand up for themselves and not be protected by big name father . im not one for payback but if they get away with this snz may find the other drivers will deal with them .
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Post by Devilracer on Nov 18, 2014 20:47:29 GMT 12
This is what I was saying in my post too McFly.
To be honest, what most are saying here, is they dont want anyone hitting or putting anyone in the wall. Time to start cutting bumpers off and siderails and start using English chassis'.
NO I dont like seeing drivers hurt but I will say it again, it is a CONTACT sport, dont like the contact, buy something non-contact.
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Post by petero on Nov 18, 2014 20:55:27 GMT 12
Great response Regan and certainly deals with the likes of "intent" of the rule as well.
Unfortuanetly was not able to atend the meeting however upon reading the article in the local paper my first thoughts were with Joe but more so why such injuries.
take away all the arguments, speed, concrete walls etc, we come back to what other factors contributed to the injuries. This brings in head restraints, seats, belts, even padding or lack of it, how all connected, angles etc and yes, car design.
However as many previous posts over the years on such subjects, there is too many wide and varying opinions so no wonder rules do not get changed.
I would have said the point of the CEO's thread when taking on questions was to highlight that the members control the rules
Hopefuly as part of the SNZ investigation data will be collected on what saftey equipment etc etc used as SNZ also needs to udnerstand why these injuries are occuring.
It may be a contact (gladiator) sport however like most we also want them back out the next race/ week etc
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Post by Regan O'Brien on Nov 18, 2014 21:06:46 GMT 12
NO I dont like seeing drivers hurt but I will say it again, it is a CONTACT sport, dont like the contact, buy something non-contact.[/quote]
Hey Matt, yep I LOVE the contact but I do this for fun and always hope to get up Sunday and do work around the house and go to work Monday.
I think that if Rees or Demanser got the guy coming out of the corner and put him up the wall and the car rolled the crowd would find that much better to watch than some one getting dragged of in the ambo. As I see it ANYONE can smash someone off the end it is EASY to do but to block someone and try and roll then down the straight it has its own technique which cause sparks and is WAY better to see for the crowd, more entertaining than the big hits.
Unfortunately it is human nature to go faster and back 30 years ago there was always the one guy who went quicker than someone else and the rest followed to try and beat him. The old saying go's "If you cant beat him, join him" but every year someone gets that faster race car.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 21:15:44 GMT 12
Devilracer666 , your comments [ it is a CONTACT sport , don't like the contact ,buy something non contact] are totally ridiculous. Everyone in the contact classes accepts there will be hits dished out and that is why they are part of it , but should they have to be parked up in hospital with the possibility they may never have the chance to compete in the sport again ie Shane Penn.
People should be able to compete in the sport they choose without receiving such serious injurys.
SNZ are trying to enforce the rules , so people can enjoy the sport and reduce the serious injurys that have been received in the past....
Maybe you enjoy the big hits , but put yourself in the receivers position and you may not be so keen..
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Post by busterbell on Nov 18, 2014 22:23:18 GMT 12
superstocks/stockcars are a young persons sport. a lot of these older fellas have taken their fare share of poundings over the years. the longer they race the more they receive the less they can cope. most other contact sports have an expiry date.... just an extra 2 cents worth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2014 22:55:01 GMT 12
5-As Mcfly said "slow them down" sorry but you will never slow the supers down when a ministock is only 2 seconds slower and is only a 4cly.We have to reduce the contact off the end as that's when they are at there fastest and when hit they go faster. Speed does not necessarily equate to entertainment. Minisprints are 4 cylinders and more than 2 seconds a lap faster than Superstocks, but are not a big drawcard unfortunately. If Superstocks are slowed down (somehow) and a driver thinks they no longer provide the thrill they seek, there are plenty of faster classes available for them. Slowing both contact classes down would reduce the severity of ALL injuries, not just from straightlines. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 5:22:02 GMT 12
Busterbell, Getting fired into the concrete at high speed will injure anyone , no matter what age . And drivers of any age should be allowed to participate and enjoy the sport without being deliberately fired into the concrete and injured....
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