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Post by busterbell on Nov 19, 2014 9:30:45 GMT 12
Busterbell, Getting fired into the concrete at high speed will injure anyone , no matter what age . And drivers of any age should be allowed to participate and enjoy the sport without being deliberately fired into the concrete and injured.... if someone does not want to be deliberately fired into the concrete then they are most definitely in the wrong class! if someone does not understand they will inevitably be injured then they are also in the wrong class. |
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Post by Devilracer on Nov 19, 2014 10:40:50 GMT 12
Devilracer666 , your comments [ it is a CONTACT sport , don't like the contact ,buy something non contact] are totally ridiculous. Everyone in the contact classes accepts there will be hits dished out and that is why they are part of it , but should they have to be parked up in hospital with the possibility they may never have the chance to compete in the sport again ie Shane Penn. People should be able to compete in the sport they choose without receiving such serious injurys. SNZ are trying to enforce the rules , so people can enjoy the sport and reduce the serious injurys that have been received in the past.... Maybe you enjoy the big hits , but put yourself in the receivers position and you may not be so keen.. It may be ridiculous to you, but its fact. If you dont like something, change what your doing. I dont agree with straightlining AT ALL. But the intent of THIS rule isnt going to work and twice it hasnt. Can SNZ prove the INTENT of both these hits? I think not. What we see from the outside may not be what the INTENT of what the driver is thinking. He may INTEND to bunt someone off the end but he may miss judge his speed, his angle, the other drivers speed or angle. These are all factors SNZ will have to prove in any inquiry. Matt and Ashers defence here could be as simple as " My INTENT wasnt to hurt the other driver and I miss judged the angle and car speed" SNZ would need proof that both these drivers werent lying. How? You tell me, cause unless your in that drivers head thinking what hes thinking, you will never know. There will always be a question of doubt.Just like Shane Penns accident, you cannot say that Carl Hodges INTENT was to put Shane out of racing for good. I wouldn t believe that for a second. Joes age hasnt got anything to do with his injuries but he did step away from Superstocks and move to Sprintcars at one point. He must have known he was coming back to a fast,contact class when he returned. I will say it again, NO I dont like seeing ANY driver from ANY class hurt. Are Superstocks just going too fast now to have contact with the wall? |
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Post by mordecai on Nov 19, 2014 10:43:27 GMT 12
Busterbell, Getting fired into the concrete at high speed will injure anyone , no matter what age . And drivers of any age should be allowed to participate and enjoy the sport without being deliberately fired into the concrete and injured.... if someone does not want to be deliberately fired into the concrete then they are most definitely in the wrong class! if someone does not understand they will inevitably be injured then they are also in the wrong class. mate SAFTEY has to come first otherwise all the superstocks drivers will end up like shane penn Kerry Humphreys now joe faram unless that's what you want and it wont be long until supers will be just faster ministocks
I believe this no straitlining rule which is only for individual racing is the correct thing to do and now to police it with hefty penaltys will hopefully stop drivers doing it
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Post by Devilracer on Nov 19, 2014 10:50:29 GMT 12
NO I dont like seeing drivers hurt but I will say it again, it is a CONTACT sport, dont like the contact, buy something non-contact. Hey Matt, yep I LOVE the contact but I do this for fun and always hope to get up Sunday and do work around the house and go to work Monday. I think that if Rees or Demanser got the guy coming out of the corner and put him up the wall and the car rolled the crowd would find that much better to watch than some one getting dragged of in the ambo. As I see it ANYONE can smash someone off the end it is EASY to do but to block someone and try and roll then down the straight it has its own technique which cause sparks and is WAY better to see for the crowd, more entertaining than the big hits. Unfortunately it is human nature to go faster and back 30 years ago there was always the one guy who went quicker than someone else and the rest followed to try and beat him. The old saying go's "If you cant beat him, join him" but every year someone gets that faster race car. [/quote] I dont disagree with you here Regan, the points you make are how racing should be, catch, tag, spin, push someone up the wall. Straightlining is always going to be a bona contention, as I say before, The way this rule is written and stupid yellow markers arent going to work and twice it hasnt. As for the speed, are we going to see Superstocks with 400ci Chevs in the next 10yrs, going twice as fast? At the end of the day, straightlining should be banned, accross ALL Stockcar/Superstock racing but with a rule that works. I can see us all debating this at the end of the season when this rule hasnt worked and has been broken by several drivers. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 10:55:59 GMT 12
As I said , people should be allowed to race in any class they choose . Every driver in the contact class acknowledge the risk of injury that may occur at any time . Accidentally clipped and shoved into the concrete  ok . But where a safety risk has been identified and a rule has been put in place to reduce the risk of serious injury , that is breached makes it a different scenario. The straightlining rule has only been recently been put in place and yes the penaltys are questionable , but at least give SNZ time to work on things rather than write them off. Deliberately being straightlined into the concrete when the rule has been made to say you cant , is something drivers shouldn't have to take as part of the sport. If the rule was made to slow Superstocks down , the very same people would be moaning about the class being boring . The comments [ If you don't like the contact , go to another class ] and [ drivers being too old ] don't wash. |
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Post by busterbell on Nov 19, 2014 11:05:35 GMT 12
you dont get it.........any driver can get injured at anytime in any fashion. even the most insignificant looking hit can injure while the big spectacular wipeout can not. injuries are part and parcel of the class. they have always happened and will continue to do so.
if drivers are worried about safety then perhaps they should consider other classes.
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Post by mordecai on Nov 19, 2014 11:18:13 GMT 12
you dont get it.........any driver can get injured at anytime in any fashion. even the most insignificant looking hit can injure while the big spectacular wipeout can not. injuries are part and parcel of the class. they have always happened and will continue to do so. if drivers are worried about safety then perhaps they should consider other classes. I get it but please tell me the results of these 3 straightlines
shane penn Kerry humpherys joe faram
or give me some examples of straitline where the drivers have driven away no injuries
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Post by busterbell on Nov 19, 2014 11:21:53 GMT 12
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Post by mordecai on Nov 19, 2014 11:25:55 GMT 12
that didn't awnser my straitlining question
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Post by busterbell on Nov 19, 2014 11:31:59 GMT 12
you dont get it.........any driver can get injured at anytime in any fashion. even the most insignificant looking hit can injure while the big spectacular wipeout can not. injuries are part and parcel of the class. they have always happened and will continue to do so. if drivers are worried about safety then perhaps they should consider other classes. I get it but please tell me the results of these 3 straightlines
shane penn Kerry humpherys joe faram
or give me some examples of straitline where the drivers have driven away no injuries
in that same time frame there would have been multiple other drivers injured that where not straight lined. i am not advocating the practice, but drivers will soon learn to target outside the yellow marks. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 11:35:35 GMT 12
I would like to know out of all these comment how many actually race Super Stocks…….I know the public are paying to see the racing but the drivers spend the huge money to do their chosen sport……. after all it is a contact sport and why the crowds are what they are at big meetings. Will we get to the point where we will all be asking ‘Bring back the Biff’
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Post by mordecai on Nov 19, 2014 11:52:15 GMT 12
I get it but please tell me the results of these 3 straightlines
shane penn Kerry humpherys joe faram
or give me some examples of straitline where the drivers have driven away no injuries
in that same time frame there would have been multiple other drivers injured that where not straight lined. i am not advocating the practice, but drivers will soon learn to target outside the yellow marks. yes im only talking about straitlining but yes target outside the yellow zones and its all good |
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Post by busterbell on Nov 19, 2014 12:16:07 GMT 12
in that same time frame there would have been multiple other drivers injured that where not straight lined. i am not advocating the practice, but drivers will soon learn to target outside the yellow marks. yes im only talking about straitlining but yes target outside the yellow zones and its all good terrific, so outside the zone the injuries magically don't happen. |
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Post by tank11 on Nov 19, 2014 12:23:36 GMT 12
No the risk ratio isn't as high?
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Post by percy on Nov 19, 2014 12:43:22 GMT 12
With the greatest of respect to the posters in the last page or so this thread hit it's peak early but has taken a rapid descent.
I don't even know what we're arguing about now and whatever it is we are arguing about it's boring and irrelevant.
I'll leave this thread open for now in the hope that some relevance may come of future posts.
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omg
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Post by omg on Nov 19, 2014 12:54:53 GMT 12
With the greatest of respect to the posters in the last page or so this thread hit it's peak early but has taken a rapid descent. I don't even know what we're arguing about now and whatever it is we are arguing about it's boring and irrelevant. I'll leave this thread open for now in the hope that some relevance may come of future posts. 1.The men that race supers(I know a few) all go to work Mondays. It's about being as safe as possible doing something they enjoy. 2. There is no room on the track for hotheads, you want payback? then beat him across the line every race. 3.The straightline rule was agreed by all drivers before it was passed by SNZ. 4. I hope both Matt and Asher have made contact with Joe and Kerry as a sign of respect to see how they are.
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Post by percy on Nov 19, 2014 13:18:29 GMT 12
3.The straightline rule was agreed by all drivers before it was passed by SNZ. No it was not The straightline remit that was circulated prior to the AGM was heavily amended at the AGM. Although the intent was maintained the mechanics of the amended rule were vastly different. So different one set of delegates felt the matter should be returned to the drivers. You are also wrong to suggest that all drivers agreed to it. A number of delegates spoke against the remit at the AGM on behalf of their drivers. I don't have my AGM folder in front of me but from memory the vote was close. It was nothing like a unanimous decision. Finally SNZ don't pass anything. The members of Speedway New Zealand vote on remits via their AGM delegates and remits are passed by way of majority. |
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Post by busterbell on Nov 19, 2014 13:33:44 GMT 12
the only difference between the old rule and the new rule is there is now a zone where no contact can be made. this is where rees came unstuck as the initial hit was legal but the follow in was in the zone therefore (that part) was deemed illegal.
prior to this if you broke contact before following in your were deemed legal.
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Post by Admin on Nov 19, 2014 14:03:32 GMT 12
3.The straightline rule was agreed by all drivers before it was passed by SNZ. No it was not The straightline remit that was circulated prior to the AGM was heavily amended at the AGM. Although the intent was maintained the mechanics of the amended rule were vastly different. So different one set of delegates felt the matter should be returned to the drivers. And that perfectly illustrates the failings of the system used. The delegates who felt the matter should be returned to the drivers for further discussion have my vote. I don't like straight lining and feel the conrete wall should be left out of the equation unless it's done side rail to side rail. Simple but then so am I. |
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Post by percy on Nov 19, 2014 14:17:18 GMT 12
To be fair to the delegates who passed the rule, the Superstock class did go into the consultation process at the same AGM. I'm no expert on the consultation process but my limited understanding of it is that any competitor in the class can at any time make an application for a rule change via submission to the SNZ Board and subsequently a consultation period in which all drivers in the particular class can make a submission on the proposed change(s).
Hopefully another poster with more knowledge than myself can elaborate but my understanding walking out of the AGM room was that any Superstock competitor could via the consultation process attempt to amend or scrap the straightlining rule. Thus competitors retain ultimate control of the situation.
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ok . But where a safety risk has been identified and a rule has been put in place to reduce the risk of serious injury , that is breached makes it a different scenario.
