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Post by tanker on Nov 19, 2014 14:39:16 GMT 12
The main reason superstock drivers are getting injured more now is because a lot of the top cars are now made from higher tensile steel . Mild steel is around 350 grade and the High tensile cars are 700 grade steel.The bracing is well thought out now as well. The seats and head rests are not padded as much in most cases so the body takes all the impact . Lims and organs against steel , steel wins . so the result is less time fixing the car and more time fixing the body.My sollusion is weaken tri rail cars and ban high tensile chassis , and have a minimium padding in the seats and on hip plates . Why do you think super stock drivers don't run flat chassis cars . Because they have no give in them .You don't feel the hits in tanks as much because the car flexes.
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Post by tanker on Nov 19, 2014 16:22:06 GMT 12
I didn't mean ban the whole chassis in high tensile ,just every member outside the coffin should be normal 350 grade. This is a simple low cost alteration but would let the car take up some of the impact.
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Post by Mark16 on Nov 19, 2014 18:01:38 GMT 12
Slow them down that means less $ involved in motors that means more biff.. simple
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Post by SS fan on Nov 19, 2014 20:09:09 GMT 12
Tanker do you actually know if joe's car is high tensile? or even if there is any high tensile in the car? And have you seen how much padding is in the seat and around him?
Perhaps people should reserve speculation until they have the facts.
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Post by tanker on Nov 19, 2014 20:55:28 GMT 12
SS fan I know for a fact it is a higher grade of rhs , but my point is tri rail are to strong in there design hence the driver feels it more . Tri rail driver have told me this .I repeat myself ,the stronger the car the more the driver feels it . Im not picking on any particular car design just the fact drivers are getting injured more as the cars are getting stronger to save maintainance.Speed is also a factor but it is hard to control . History shows that. When motors were limited to 10:1 etc we all spent more money and went faster.
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Post by gjd on Nov 19, 2014 21:38:25 GMT 12
Tanker ,,good points but you forgot to mention the seat belts.some of these drivers have rachet seat belts that are over tighten to the point off just about cutting him in half.as soon as he gets a big hit bang goes his pelvis.. This could be another area to investigate
Maybe the softer wall that was discussed in another thread should be made compulsory .This would get rid of the straight lining rule and free up SNZ officials to do what they already do rather than add another heap of pressure involving marginal calls etc when there's no black and white areas to officiate on
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Post by tank11 on Nov 19, 2014 22:07:19 GMT 12
Tanker ,,good points but you forgot to mention the seat belts. some of these drivers have rachet seat belts that are over tighten to the point off just about cutting him in half.as soon as he gets a big hit bang goes his pelvis.. This could be another area to investigate Maybe the softer wall that was discussed in another thread should be made compulsory .This would get rid of the straight lining rule and free up SNZ officials to do what they already do rather than add another heap of pressure involving marginal calls etc when there's no black and white areas to officiate on Crow found this also, at Huntly a couple of years back? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 22:18:21 GMT 12
When Superstocks were A-grades, were these same debates going on? I remember more biff and less speed, it seems these days there is less biff in this class and more speed, leading me to think bank managers and engine builders are the ones winning, spectators are loosing, and some drivers are receiving more serious injuries.
Speed surely must be a factor in these typoes of injuries, as Im sure the cars haven't got any less safe, but the top speed and horsepower keeps going up and up.
Less contact and more speed = UK F1 Stockcars - we already had a lucky escape with a similar class being introduced around our tracks.
Regardless of the debate, I wish Joe all the best for a steady recovery, and look forward to seeing him back out there in the future.
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Post by midway on Nov 19, 2014 22:35:08 GMT 12
The heading of this thread is quite simple ,Joe Faram ,4b superstock . Joe has made his own choice to race back in a sport that he enjoys ,he knows the risks invovled ,just like his work flying helicopters ,but as most of you know the risk flying these machines in agriculture and forestry work is much higher and has a high fatality rate .
When its time to step aside from these activities regardless of listening to the whole nine yards of this that and the other will be his i wish him a speedy recovery .
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Post by Admin on Nov 19, 2014 22:52:08 GMT 12
When Superstocks were A-grades, were these same debates going on? I remember more biff and less speed, For about as long as I can remember people have grizzled the Agraders are going too fast and don't hit like they did in the old days. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 23:09:24 GMT 12
Sorry Macgor, my question was poorly written.....When Superstock were A-grades, were people debating whether or not they were going too fast, and the amount of serious injuries? Or is this a more modern debate?
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Post by Admin on Nov 19, 2014 23:35:24 GMT 12
Sorry Macgor, my question was poorly written.....When Superstock were A-grades, were people debating whether or not they were going too fast, and the amount of serious injuries? Or is this a more modern debate? Too fast yes. Don't remember much talk about the injury rate. Bear in mind there was no internet discussion like we have now. |
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Post by tank11 on Nov 20, 2014 6:40:32 GMT 12
Sorry Macgor, my question was poorly written.....When Superstock were A-grades, were people debating whether or not they were going too fast, and the amount of serious injuries? Or is this a more modern debate? Too fast yes. Don't remember much talk about the injury rate. Bear in mind there was no internet discussion like we have now. For an old fella, you're very wise Mr Mac......... |
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Post by Fraser on Nov 20, 2014 10:07:02 GMT 12
Hi Guys,
Great discussion on this topic, I haven't spoken to Joe , but I wish him a speedy recovery,
Some good points brought up here and good to see some drivers giving their opinion ,
From a drivers point of view I wasn't in favour of this straight lining rule as it currently is, you make the Refs job harder than it is with their point
of view on each incident (And their views are all different)
The fact is that as we get older our recovery time takes longer and we don't take the hits like we use to when we were younger (Just like Rugby and most sport etc)
Trying to lessen the injuries is a good idea and Im all for that, however you still need a certain amount of mongrel to race contact classes as the unknown is the reason the sport is so popular with the Drivers and fans, It takes skill and confidence to throw these cars in front other drivers knowing they might or may not fire you off the end, if you having a bad night or just not happy with another driver its up to you if you want to wreck their race, which is something you don't have a choice in other classes or most other forms of Motorsport.
As far as cars getting so much faster you only have to check the lap records and many of these were faster 5 or 10 years ago, I recall Stan holding the lap record at huntly for about ten years.
The cars these days are getting more expensive to build because of all the light weight alloy fast bits we are fitting and the HiTensile steel that the chassis builders are fitting, which make them lighter, faster and stronger bit with less give on the body.
My car is an older style genuine Gordge car Built from Hi tensile steel but only the coffin area, all the bumpers and side rails are mild steel which makes it still real light however when you get fired off or fire someone else off you tend to bend bumpers side rails etc rather than your own body. (Its still For Sale Too )
This is just my View,
Cheers Kyle
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Post by conrod on Nov 20, 2014 18:16:05 GMT 12
When Superstocks were A-grades, were these same debates going on? I remember more biff and less speed, For about as long as I can remember people have grizzled the Agraders are going too fast and don't hit like they did in the old days. I think it was about Keith Simpson or there abouts |
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Post by Admin on Nov 20, 2014 18:32:33 GMT 12
For about as long as I can remember people have grizzled the Agraders are going too fast and don't hit like they did in the old days. I think it was about Keith Simpson or there abouts Nah , it was 'when they started using OHV V8's and got worse when they started hotting them up.' Quote from Pallmall RIP |
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Post by speedinaway on Nov 20, 2014 19:39:04 GMT 12
Cheers for the driver perspective Kyle
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Post by meeaneemic on Nov 20, 2014 20:14:34 GMT 12
I interviewed Joe on camera before the meeting and he was buzzing to get back out there after 11 months off.
The incident happened right in front of my commentary position and it was a brutal hit.
Whether it was legal or not is not for me to Judge but I do feel that SNZ have so far missed the chance to stamp this sort of incident out.
If the Motorway Patrol took your License off you for exceeding even just 8khm over the 100khm limit and said you can't have it back for 12 months I doubt many of us would speed at all.
We talk about slowing the Supers down but it is the spectacle of speed that thrills us each Saturday night.
In my opinion 2 things need to happen and that is improve the markings of the exclusion zone on the fencing and the other to impose a SEVERE penalty for anyone who commits the offence.
Take Licenses off them for 12 months from date of offence and a hefty fine of say $1500 or even more, the message will sink in soon enough.
This can be Policed it just isn't being dealt with in the correct way.
It kind of reminds me of the pathetic fines Boy Racers get on the roads, they don't care and just keep on racking them up
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 20:19:23 GMT 12
Spot on there Meeaneemic , that's all I can say.
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Post by tony27 on Nov 20, 2014 20:59:17 GMT 12
Palmy certainly made sure the yellow zones were more defined & cleaned after the Asher Rees/Kerry Humphrey incident, the fence posts in the whole zone are now painted as well as the solid marks on the fence
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